Pakistan arrests C.I.A. informants in bin Laden raid

Started by jimmy olsen, June 14, 2011, 10:49:16 PM

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grumbler

Quote from: Razgovory on June 15, 2011, 11:29:32 AM
Hell, the US invaded a 9th century country back in 2003 and still hasn't been able to uplift it.
:rolleyes:  Missouri is tenth-century, isn't a country, and wasn't invaded in 2003.  You got the non-uplifted part right.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Martinus

Quote from: Admiral Yi on June 15, 2011, 06:37:20 AM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2011, 06:17:35 AM
Back to the topic at hand, rather than a retarded-comment-in-response-to-racist-quip-turned-into-a-AI-nerd-circle-jerk this thread has become, I don't see anything wrong per se with Pakistan arresting the informants - you never want your own military personnel selling state secrets to foreign powers, even if they are your allies.

The Pakistanis' fault lies in not cooperating at the government/agency level, but can't blame them for rooting out traitors.

I can blame them very much for considering Bin Laden's location a state secret.

Which is exactly what I said. Can you read?

Razgovory

Quote from: grumbler on June 15, 2011, 11:45:15 AM
Quote from: Razgovory on June 15, 2011, 11:29:32 AM
Hell, the US invaded a 9th century country back in 2003 and still hasn't been able to uplift it.
:rolleyes:  Missouri is tenth-century, isn't a country, and wasn't invaded in 2003.  You got the non-uplifted part right.

Gee Grumbler, you really got me there.  Whatever will I do in the face of your incisive wit?
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2011, 11:46:20 AM
Which is exactly what I said. Can you read?

I thought that Pakistani government's current official position is that they didn't know Bin Laden was in country.  These arrests are inconsistent with that position, because if the government wasn't responsible for Bin Laden's safe haven and didn't know anything about it, then by definition that information cannot be a state secret. 
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2011, 11:46:20 AM
Which is exactly what I said. Can you read?

Your post was much longer than mine, and contained a number of assertions which were inconsistent with the part I agreed with.

garbon

Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2011, 03:05:03 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 15, 2011, 01:45:42 AM
Is that really true though? Do you understand modern technologies well enough for you to recreate them, or 9th century Vikings(you'd be better off in Byzantium methinks) to reverse engineer them?

I think most people(well most educated people) could punch out a bunch of major theoretical break-throughs(gravity, gene theory, heliocentrism, bits and pieces of the calculus, etc) but wouldn't be able to do much with those- it would still fall to 9th century scientists to figure out a use for them.

I think Twain's Connecticut Yankee had far more success in recreating his world than is realistically possible(accepting for a moment the possibility of time travel itself).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lest_Darkness_Fall

I've no idea what the actual story is like, but the wiki summary makes it sounds like typical AH crap that overreaches.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Camerus

Quote from: The Minsky Moment on June 15, 2011, 01:09:05 PM
Quote from: Martinus on June 15, 2011, 11:46:20 AM
Which is exactly what I said. Can you read?

I thought that Pakistani government's current official position is that they didn't know Bin Laden was in country.  These arrests are inconsistent with that position, because if the government wasn't responsible for Bin Laden's safe haven and didn't know anything about it, then by definition that information cannot be a state secret.

Exactly.   Not to mention they've also been receiving a truckload of US money for their "co-operation" up to this point.

dps

With Slargos to guide them, it would probably take the Vikings till the 25th Century to develop indoor plumbing.

Slargos

Quote from: dps on June 16, 2011, 05:54:07 PM
With Slargos to guide them, it would probably take the Vikings till the 25th Century to develop indoor plumbing.

If I somehow conjure up the magicks to live until the 25th century, that's a price I'm willing to pay.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: garbon on June 15, 2011, 10:24:24 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 15, 2011, 03:05:03 AM
Quote from: Peter Wiggin on June 15, 2011, 01:45:42 AM
Is that really true though? Do you understand modern technologies well enough for you to recreate them, or 9th century Vikings(you'd be better off in Byzantium methinks) to reverse engineer them?

I think most people(well most educated people) could punch out a bunch of major theoretical break-throughs(gravity, gene theory, heliocentrism, bits and pieces of the calculus, etc) but wouldn't be able to do much with those- it would still fall to 9th century scientists to figure out a use for them.

I think Twain's Connecticut Yankee had far more success in recreating his world than is realistically possible(accepting for a moment the possibility of time travel itself).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lest_Darkness_Fall

I've no idea what the actual story is like, but the wiki summary makes it sounds like typical AH crap that overreaches.
It's time travel, not AH.

The guy's a college professor and the education given at a liberal arts college at the beginning of the 20th century was a broad one. And it's not like he never failed. He couldn't get gunpowder right.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

garbon

Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 16, 2011, 07:15:15 PM
It's time travel, not AH.

The guy's a college professor and the education given at a liberal arts college at the beginning of the 20th century was a broad one. And it's not like he never failed. He couldn't get gunpowder right.

And yet he keeps alive a resurgent Ostrogothic kingdom preventing the Dark Ages. :rolleyes:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

grumbler

Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2011, 06:41:26 AM
And yet he keeps alive a resurgent Ostrogothic kingdom preventing the Dark Ages. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:  Are you sure you read the book?  That's not what happens.

The book is well known because it was one of the early time-travel stories that actually used history and science in its makeup, and because DeCamp's whimsical writing style makes it very accessible, for a fantasy book.  Some people may not like it, but it won't be because the main character "keeps alive a resurgent Ostrogothic kingdom preventing the Dark Ages."
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

DGuller

That sounds like an interesting book.  This may be the book I will read this year.

Eddie Teach

Quote from: jimmy olsen on June 16, 2011, 07:15:15 PM
It's time travel, not AH.

They're not mutually exclusive. The Guns of the South and 1632 for instance.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

Razgovory

Quote from: grumbler on June 17, 2011, 07:31:15 AM
Quote from: garbon on June 17, 2011, 06:41:26 AM
And yet he keeps alive a resurgent Ostrogothic kingdom preventing the Dark Ages. :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:  Are you sure you read the book?  That's not what happens.

The book is well known because it was one of the early time-travel stories that actually used history and science in its makeup, and because DeCamp's whimsical writing style makes it very accessible, for a fantasy book.  Some people may not like it, but it won't be because the main character "keeps alive a resurgent Ostrogothic kingdom preventing the Dark Ages."

That seems like a fair description based on the book if I recall correctly.  He helps create a stable Ostrogoth Kingdom in Italy (with the help of Belisarius).  Mostly though the use of modern political tricks and methods.  The book is kinda pulpy, but still a classic in the genre.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017