Unions: good for workers or bad for business?

[katmai]

Without unions, I'd be living on the family farm outside of Riga, instead of in Mississippi.

Am I the only one confused if this is a yay or nay? 

[Caliga]

Am I the only one confused if this is a yay or nay? 

Mississippi is a delightful place to live.  Just don't be a negro. 

[Ed Anger]

Tolerable, as long as you can deal with them Harlan county style.

[saskganesh]

Without unions, I'd be living on the family farm outside of Riga, instead of in Mississippi.

Am I the only one confused if this is a yay or nay? 

I think its a nay.

i.e. without unions, the colorful Latvian peasants would still be cheerfully labouring for Boyar Ignatieff.

[Neil]

In general against.  They've provided useful services in the past, but now it is time for them to be disbanded and their leadership liquidated.

[Iormlund]

Someone close to me has been very involved in one of our main unions for decades. I've heard countless stories, both good and bad about the trade and the conclusion I've come to is unions are the lesser evil. Anti-union proponents can mentally masturbate as much as they want, but businesses just have way too much power compared to your average worker and that's a fact not subjected to discussion.

[Razgovory]

Without unions, I'd be living on the family farm outside of Riga, instead of in Mississippi.

Also since the Bar is essentially a Union of Lawyers you wouldn't have had go to law school to be a lawyer.  You could just say you were one and fake it like marty.

[Neil]

Someone close to me has been very involved in one of our main unions for decades. I've heard countless stories, both good and bad about the trade and the conclusion I've come to is unions are the lesser evil. Anti-union proponents can mentally masturbate as much as they want, but businesses just have way too much power compared to your average worker and that's a fact not subjected to discussion.

Perhaps, but legislation has covered over all the bits that really matter.  At this point, it's all about the money.

[Iormlund]

It is very free-market and no one in their right mind would ever consider banning all unions.  The trouble comes when the union uses its position of representation to attain political power and gets the government to mandate things on its behalf.  That is when it goes out of the realm of the free market and into the realm of mercantilism, which is why unions are so reviled by many.

I take you are an advocate of outlawing lobbies altogether then? Or is just unions that shouldn't have influence on politicians, while businesses are OK?

[Iormlund]

Someone close to me has been very involved in one of our main unions for decades. I've heard countless stories, both good and bad about the trade and the conclusion I've come to is unions are the lesser evil. Anti-union proponents can mentally masturbate as much as they want, but businesses just have way too much power compared to your average worker and that's a fact not subjected to discussion.

Perhaps, but legislation has covered over all the bits that really matter.  At this point, it's all about the money.

It has always been about the money in one way or the other and it is far from over. Unpaid overtime is widespread, for example. And working conditions remain crappy in many industries. Worker oversight over retirement funds is also pretty important.
Another big role the unions fulfill here is education, the two biggest unions and the business guild offer a lot of useful courses to train or retrain workers (I've both taken and taught classes in that programme, which is partly EU funded).
And also they can offer you legal assistance if you happen to have a problem. That's very important because going to court costs a small fortune and employers know this perfectly well.

[Caliga]

It might be that Euro unions are useful as opposed to redundant, obsolete parasites.  I don't know.

[Savonarola]

I am a non union member.  Can I work for General Motors, not join UAW, receive lower wages than union members, and survive?

It depends on the state and the company.  In Michigan in order to have a position classified as "Bargained" at GM you must join the UAW.

[Berkut]

It is rather silly to make over-generalized statements like "unions are bad" or "unions are good". Some are bad, some are good, most make little difference.

The unions in question, of public service employees in the state of New York (for example) are, however, casebook examples of how bad unions can be.

Look at Strix as a fine example - he is making nearly $80,000 doing nearly unskilled or low skilled work that requires nothing more than a bachelors degree, and the big beef he has with the governor is that the governor doesn't want to give him yet another yearly raise at a time when the state is looking at tens of billions of dollars in budget shortfall.

Every single year, the public service unions force politicians to vote them more and more and more and more and more money. They don't have to do any kind of economic activity to generate that money. They don't have to perform to keep their jobs. There is no connection at all between the job they do, and the money they get paid. Their compensation is 100% based on nothing more than their political power, which is grossly out of line with their actual relevance to  the economy.

I know many people who work for the government in New York. Of course, everyone does, since the government employees so many people in this state. The irony of Strixy being the sudden champion of socialist New York's union system is impressive.

[Faeelin]

Depends.

In theory, I don't really care that unions are anti-market, since I don't see a problem with balancing out the power of a business owner.

In practice, depends on the union.

[BVN]

It depends on the state and the company.  In Michigan in order to have a position classified as "Bargained" at GM you must join the UAW.

Where I live unions protect the rights of workers in general, even if you aren't a member and don't pay memebership fees.
Granted, if you need some assistance with a very personal problem, only members will receive help.