So we hit the debt limit...

[MadImmortalMan]

The deal does have revenues. The Bush tax cuts are expiring. It's just the GOP has the cover of automatic expiration to claim they didn't raise taxes.

But do we even have any *real* spending cuts?  Or are the spending 'cuts' in this deal just going to somewhat reduce the rate of increased spending.  IIRC, with congress's baseline budgeting shenanigans a certain increase in spending (6-7%?) over the previous year is taken for granted, and anything that reduces that increase is considered a cut.

As far as I know, there are no cuts below the baseline in any of this. It's all decreases in the rate of growth. A spending freeze would probably count as a ten trillion dollar cut using these methods.

[Zoupa]

After all, if half of their lies are accepted as a reasonable middle ground, then there is incentive to just keep warping reality as far as imagination will allow, and you're going to be granted half of that.  Sometime the only reasonable and proper thing to say is:  "You guys are totally fucking nuts, you're out of this world, virtually nothing you say has any semblance of facts in it."

Sounds like you'd be better off saying nothing.

Oh, irony. You should think about this post of yours each time your little mouse goes over the "Post" button and you're about to click. Ask yourself, aren't I better off not saying a thing?

Which, by the way, is better english than "saying nothing".

[DGuller]

The deal does have revenues. The Bush tax cuts are expiring. It's just the GOP has the cover of automatic expiration to claim they didn't raise taxes.

But do we even have any *real* spending cuts?  Or are the spending 'cuts' in this deal just going to somewhat reduce the rate of increased spending.  IIRC, with congress's baseline budgeting shenanigans a certain increase in spending (6-7%?) over the previous year is taken for granted, and anything that reduces that increase is considered a cut.

As far as I know, there are no cuts below the baseline in any of this. It's all decreases in the rate of growth. A spending freeze would probably count as a ten trillion dollar cut using these methods.

As it should be.  The baseline should not be the current level of spending, it should be expected future level of spending given the reasonable assumptions.

[garbon]

Which, by the way, is better english than "saying nothing".

I wasn't recently playing the grammar game, just the "words have definitions so let's use their actual definitions" bit.

[Zoupa]

Awww, widdle garby is mad. Here's your pacifier. It's cock-shaped, just how you like them. 

[Zoupa]

Nice edit btw.

[garbon]

Nice edit btw.

I had threads confused.

[derspiess]

As it should be.  The baseline should not be the current level of spending, it should be expected future level of spending given the reasonable assumptions.

I might agree if the baseline were tied to, say, inflation.  But as it is, it's extremely misleading to the public and helps enable and conceal politicians' (on both sides of the aisle) spending addicition.

[MadImmortalMan]

Debate happening. Word is the House has the support to pass. So we could see it soon.


http://www.cspan.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/

[Razgovory]

Okay, Berkut.  I'll bite.  Which tribe are you suppose to be?  And please point me to exactly which sentence in Iormlund post that was untrue, and prove that it is untrue.

[Berkut]

I am not in a tribe, of course*. Tribalism/partisanship is bad, that is my point. The world would be a better place if people made more of an effort to think objectively instead of just spouting off comments about how everyone in the "other" trbe is stupid/ignorant/deluded/whatever.

And why in the world would I care to try to "prove" anything to you? I know I never made the claim ascribed to me, whether YOU accept that or not is not really very important to me,.

*At least not in reference to this discussion. Of course I have my own groups I identify with and tend to agree with due to that identification (for example, I am an American, and hence tend to look on our actions with more favor than non-Americans), but this is an attriubte that should be recognized and minimized as much as possible. When it comes to politics, I make a very conscious effort to understand what motivates people and why they take the positions they take, even if I do not agree with them. Of course, it is much more intellectually simple to just decide that everything the other guy says is just lies and crazy talk, and then you can quit thinking.

[MadImmortalMan]

Boehner just told Diane Sawyer he's got the votes to pass the compromise.

[Sheilbh]

Here's a question for those who think Obama could have done better. How should he have held the line?

I don't think he could have unless Republicans were willing to split.  My view is that, as with TARP, raising the debt ceiling may be unpopular but it is, in every way, the right thing to do.  The people who are playing with it or using it as a negotiating tool or trying to vote it down are wrong.

What's really worrying is I'm begining to be one of those guys who think your system's broke.  I don't think you need spending cuts in the short-term - except for natural ones in defence as the wars wind down.  But you do need to be able to credibly set out medium to long term fiscal consolidation that will involve tax, Medicare and Social Security reform plus spending cuts.  I don't know that your systemright now is capable of that or anything else medium to long term.

[dps]

As it should be.  The baseline should not be the current level of spending, it should be expected future level of spending given the reasonable assumptions.

I might agree if the baseline were tied to, say, inflation.  But as it is, it's extremely misleading to the public and helps enable and conceal politicians' (on both sides of the aisle) spending addicition.

Yeah, when an increase in spending is presented as a cut, that's just doublespeak.

[DontSayBanana]

I love the combined rhetoric of forcing a balanced budget amendment along with the "no tax hikes" party line.  Are these guys completely unaware that taxes are going to have to be raised to balance the budget?