So we hit the debt limit...

[Fate]

I don't think that was the Republican Party.

McVeigh was a registered Republican, though he was leaning toward Libertarian.

So what?  When a black person robs someone, they are robbed by a black person, not the Democratic Party.

How many black robbers are actually involved in politics enough to be registered?

[Neil]

I don't think that was the Republican Party.

McVeigh was a registered Republican, though he was leaning toward Libertarian.

So what?  When a black person robs someone, they are robbed by a black person, not the Democratic Party.

How many black robbers are actually involved in politics enough to be registered?

Presumably all of them.  Blacks are still driven by machine politics.

Still, it doesn't matter.  When someone commits a criminal act, it's a stain on their personal honour and not that of their political party, especially in a country like the US where there are only two political parties.

[derspiess]

And it goes without saying that I'd rather have her than Obama as Prez.

Strike my last post;  my vote cancels out dergoof's.

Joke's on you, then.  My wife will vote as I tell her, so you need to come up with another vote to cancel out my two

[derspiess]

How many black robbers are actually involved in politics enough to be registered?

Ask someone from ACORN.  I'm sure they'll give you the lowdown.

[Razgovory]

How many black robbers are actually involved in politics enough to be registered?

Ask someone from ACORN.  I'm sure they'll give you the lowdown.

You still believe that conspiracy shit, even after the videos were found to be edited?

[Razgovory]

I don't think that was the Republican Party.

McVeigh was a registered Republican, though he was leaning toward Libertarian.

So what?  When a black person robs someone, they are robbed by a black person, not the Democratic Party.

It was a political act.  Robbing someone is not a political act.

[derspiess]

He's a complete Clinton clone,

You're a putz.

Does that offend you as a Clinton voter or as an Obama voter? 

[derspiess]

How many black robbers are actually involved in politics enough to be registered?

Ask someone from ACORN.  I'm sure they'll give you the lowdown.

You still believe that conspiracy shit, even after the videos were found to be edited?

I wasn't talking about the videos.

[The Minsky Moment]

James K. Galbraith argues that there is in fact no actual crisis beyond that manufactured by political posturing, and that the Debt Ceiling is in fact unconstitional here: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/11/the_catastrophic_debt_ceilng_debate/index.html

I've read some rather convincing take downs of that argument. Maybe there is something to the idea that if the debt ceiling isn't increased we will still have to make debt payments from our current revenues, but that doesn't mean people are going to keep getting their medicare (and actually would make it less likely they get their medicare).

Maybe a real lawyer could chime in.

I don't think the 14th amendment argument makes a lot of sense.

However, it does seems to me that if Congress does the following:
1) Directs expenditure of money
2) Refuses to raise revenues sufficient to support those expenditures, and
3) Refuses to authorize issuance of debt,

then it has created a fundamental logical contradiction for the Executive, which has the duty to carry out the laws faithfully.  The Executive can't do all three of those things; it must take some action that is inconsistent with its obligations.  The discussion to date in the media seems to presume that the only way to resolve the problem is for the Executive to repudiate its obligations at least in part with respect to Item 1.  But it is less than clear to me why it is OK to flaunt laws directing expenditure of money but not those directing limits on authorized debt.  All the laws stand in equal dignity.  Thus, if Congress has acted in a way as to force the Executive to break some directive, then it seems to me the Executive should be able to exercise its discretion about which directive to bend.

[Razgovory]

I wasn't talking about the videos.

Which conspiracy were you thinking of?

[Habbaku]

Probably the same one that convinces you that McVeigh was under orders from the RNC.

[derspiess]

I wasn't talking about the videos.

Which conspiracy were you thinking of?

The ones they pled guilty to

[Razgovory]

You mean where they got fined 5,000?  Wow.  That's something to get worked up about.

[MadImmortalMan]

 

Here's a funny idea:

http://pragcap.com/lets-end-this-debt-ceiling-debate-with-a-1-oz-1t-coin

    "No, Tsy isn't authorized to just "print" money, the Federal Reserve Act gives that power to the Fed, However, the Coinage Act grants the Secretary of the Treasury rather broad coin seigniorage authority. Geithner could sidestep the debt ceiling this afternoon by ordering the West Point Mint to coin a 1 oz. $ 1 trillion coin. Tsy can then present the jumbo coins at the NY Fed to buy back $1 trillion in Fed-held debt (the Fed has to accept it, a creditor can't refuse legal tender paid in to settle a debt):

    (h) The coins issued under this title shall be legal tender... (k) The Secretary may mint and issue platinum bullion coins and proof platinum coins in accordance with such specifications, designs, varieties, quantities, denominations, and inscriptions as the Secretary, in the Secretary's discretion, may prescribe from time to time."

[Admiral Yi]

Interesting argument Joan.