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So we hit the debt limit...

Started by MadImmortalMan, May 17, 2011, 01:18:23 PM

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alfred russel

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on July 12, 2011, 07:59:25 PM
I was hoping there would be a new different argument for the ceiling to be unconstitutional in that piece, but alas. I think McConnell's plan sounds much more unconstitutional to me, as it's sort of delegating part of the powers of the purse to the executive. Maybe not outright unconstitutional, but certainly making the separation of powers more squishy than intended. Wouldn't be the first time, but still. I think when the debt limit came in during the war, it was probably a way to allow the executive more leeway while still retaining ultimate spending power in the Congress. It is, in itself, a compromise on the constitutional intent. Again maybe not unconstitutional on those grounds, but...squishy.

MIM, there is nothing in the constitution about needing a debt limit. Congress passes appropriations, and the Executive spends them. Maybe it is unconstitutional to let the president set a debt limit (theoretically he could refuse to increase it, and just not spend on the programs he doesn't like, creating a back door line item veto), but I would think the remedy would be to toss the whole debt limit out.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

alfred russel

Quote from: Jacob on July 12, 2011, 06:16:15 PM
James K. Galbraith argues that there is in fact no actual crisis beyond that manufactured by political posturing, and that the Debt Ceiling is in fact unconstitional here: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/11/the_catastrophic_debt_ceilng_debate/index.html

I've read some rather convincing take downs of that argument. Maybe there is something to the idea that if the debt ceiling isn't increased we will still have to make debt payments from our current revenues, but that doesn't mean people are going to keep getting their medicare (and actually would make it less likely they get their medicare).

Maybe a real lawyer could chime in.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Jacob

Quote from: Admiral Yi on July 12, 2011, 06:26:51 PMThe argument about the 14th Amendment has been made elsewhere, and much, much better than this schmuck does.  His airy dismissal of the debt is similarly unimpressive.

"Shtetl haggler" and now "schmuck" - what's with all the Yiddishisims? Is the Yi in your name short for Yiddisher?

CountDeMoney

Quote from: Neil on July 12, 2011, 08:18:05 PM
Quote from: CountDeMoney on July 12, 2011, 08:11:07 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2011, 08:08:52 PM
So you down to buying guns and canned food now, Seedy?
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/index.asp

You tell them I'm coming, and Hell's coming with me.
:lol:

You do realize that there's a clause in the Canadian Pledge of Allegiance about football having only 3 downs, right?

SON OF A

CountDeMoney

QuoteLanguage abilities

Canada has two official languages—English and French. You need to have adequate knowledge of one of these two languages in order to become a Canadian citizen.

The citizenship knowledge test and your interaction with CIC staff will be used to assess if you have an adequate ability to communicate in either English or French. CIC staff will observe

    * your ability to understand basic spoken statements and questions, and
    * your ability to communicate basic information or respond to questions.

For example, as part of your interaction with departmental staff or as part of your written test or your interview with a citizenship judge, you will be expected to:

    * answer simple questions on familiar topics, using short sentences;
    * show that you know enough words for basic everyday communication;
    * tell a simple story about everyday activities;
    * speak about something you did in the past (or will do in the future);
    * give simple everyday instructions and directions; and
    * express satisfaction or dissatisfaction.

I wish we had that.

Neil

Your immigrants are all illegal anyways, so it wouldn't matter what sorts of laws you make.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

jimmy olsen

Quote from: derspiess on July 12, 2011, 03:17:09 PM



I think he's the worst we've had since Carter.  I never thought we'd have a president that would make me miss Clinton this much.

He's a complete Clinton clone, if there's any difference he's further to the right.
It is far better for the truth to tear my flesh to pieces, then for my soul to wander through darkness in eternal damnation.

Jet: So what kind of woman is she? What's Julia like?
Faye: Ordinary. The kind of beautiful, dangerous ordinary that you just can't leave alone.
Jet: I see.
Faye: Like an angel from the underworld. Or a devil from Paradise.
--------------------------------------------
1 Karma Chameleon point

HisMajestyBOB

Quote from: derspiess on July 12, 2011, 03:17:09 PM
It should mystify you-- because I didn't say it.  I don't fear a Bachmann presidency like you guys do.  She's not my first choice, nor is she my second, third, etc.  But I agree with her politically a lot more than I do Obama.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/michele-bachmann/

You agree with lies?
Three lovely Prada points for HoI2 help

Razgovory

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on July 12, 2011, 09:33:56 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 12, 2011, 03:17:09 PM
It should mystify you-- because I didn't say it.  I don't fear a Bachmann presidency like you guys do.  She's not my first choice, nor is she my second, third, etc.  But I agree with her politically a lot more than I do Obama.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/michele-bachmann/

You agree with lies?

He does get his news from Breitbart, a blog site that alters videos to serve their purposes.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

CountDeMoney


Razgovory

Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 12, 2011, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 12, 2011, 03:17:09 PM



I think he's the worst we've had since Carter.  I never thought we'd have a president that would make me miss Clinton this much.

He's a complete Clinton clone, if there's any difference he's further to the right.

Republicans hated Clinton so much they blew up a federal building.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2011, 09:53:33 PM
Quote from: jimmy olsen on July 12, 2011, 09:31:20 PM
Quote from: derspiess on July 12, 2011, 03:17:09 PM
I think he's the worst we've had since Carter.  I never thought we'd have a president that would make me miss Clinton this much.
He's a complete Clinton clone, if there's any difference he's further to the right.
Republicans hated Clinton so much they blew up a federal building.
I don't think that was the Republican Party.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: alfred russel on July 12, 2011, 08:20:52 PM
MIM, there is nothing in the constitution about needing a debt limit.

I know. I think it's unnecessary to have it at all. And I don't like the idea of it if it's intended as a method for the Congress to devolve some of their powers to the executive. The McConnell thing goes farther in that direction. That's why I have distaste for it.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Razgovory

Quote from: Neil on July 12, 2011, 09:56:35 PM

I don't think that was the Republican Party.

McVeigh was a registered Republican, though he was leaning toward Libertarian.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Neil

Quote from: Razgovory on July 12, 2011, 10:16:22 PM
Quote from: Neil on July 12, 2011, 09:56:35 PM

I don't think that was the Republican Party.
McVeigh was a registered Republican, though he was leaning toward Libertarian.
So what?  When a black person robs someone, they are robbed by a black person, not the Democratic Party.
I do not hate you, nor do I love you, but you are made out of atoms which I can use for something else.