So we hit the debt limit...

[Razgovory]

Oh, come on.  You guys know how far to the right I am.

Seems to me like your position is the equivalent of a lefty preferring Kucinich to McCain or Romney in the last election.  It's not just of question of Left or Right.  There are certain people who as a categorical matter should not be placed in a position of such power because they have demonstrated their incapability of acting responsibly.  In that sense Kucinich and Bachman are more alike than Pawlenty and Bachman, and Obama and Pawlenty are more alike than either Kucinich and Bachman.

Right and Left are all fine and dandy; I'll admit to as much partisanship as the next guy.  But America still comes first.

The Republican hatred of Obama is blinding all good sense.  Fuck, they'd welcome a Chinese dictator before Obama.  That's why they going on about light bulbs and other bullshit (even though Obama has nothing to do with it).

[Jacob]

James K. Galbraith argues that there is in fact no actual crisis beyond that manufactured by political posturing, and that the Debt Ceiling is in fact unconstitional here: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/11/the_catastrophic_debt_ceilng_debate/index.html

[Razgovory]

Oh and here's my bet with Yi.  The next Republican to win the Presidency will increase the deficit under his/her administration.  If I am correct I get to have my way with his current girlfriend.  If I'm wrong, I have to be Yi's personal assassin and kill one person of his choice.

[Admiral Yi]

James K. Galbraith argues that there is in fact no actual crisis beyond that manufactured by political posturing, and that the Debt Ceiling is in fact unconstitional here: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/11/the_catastrophic_debt_ceilng_debate/index.html

The argument about the 14th Amendment has been made elsewhere, and much, much better than this schmuck does.  His airy dismissal of the debt is similarly unimpressive.

[Admiral Yi]

Oh and here's my bet with Yi.  The next Republican to win the Presidency will increase the deficit under his/her administration.  If I am correct I get to have my way with his current girlfriend.  If I'm wrong, I have to be Yi's personal assassin and kill one person of his choice.

In nominal terms, real terms, % of GDP, or % of government expenditure?

[MadImmortalMan]

James K. Galbraith argues that there is in fact no actual crisis beyond that manufactured by political posturing, and that the Debt Ceiling is in fact unconstitional here: http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/07/11/the_catastrophic_debt_ceilng_debate/index.html

From that:

Never mind that to force default on the public obligations of the United States is plainly unconstitutional. Section 4 of the 14th amendment says in simple language that public debts, once duly authorized by law and including pensions, by the way, "shall not be questioned." The purpose of this language was to foreclose, to put beyond politics, any possibility that the Union would renege on debts and pensions and bounties incurred to win the Civil War. But the application is very general and the courts have ruled that the principle extends to the present day.

What is going on in Congress at this moment already violates that mandate. It is an effort to subvert the authority of the government to meet and therefore to incur obligations of every possible stripe. It is an attack on the concept of government itself – as the "Tea Party" by its very name would no doubt agree. It therefore paints those deficit hawks who are using the debt ceiling to take budget hostages as enemies of the United States Constitution.

The President, though supposedly a constitutional expert and though sworn to "preserve, protect and defend" the Constitution, will not say this.

Maybe if the Constitutional Scholar President doesn't think it's true, you should doubt it also, Mr. Galbraith.

[Razgovory]

Oh and here's my bet with Yi.  The next Republican to win the Presidency will increase the deficit under his/her administration.  If I am correct I get to have my way with his current girlfriend.  If I'm wrong, I have to be Yi's personal assassin and kill one person of his choice.

In nominal terms, real terms, % of GDP, or % of government expenditure?

I don't understand any of that.  This could possibly be a problem.

[MadImmortalMan]

I was hoping there would be a new different argument for the ceiling to be unconstitutional in that piece, but alas. I think McConnell's plan sounds much more unconstitutional to me, as it's sort of delegating part of the powers of the purse to the executive. Maybe not outright unconstitutional, but certainly making the separation of powers more squishy than intended. Wouldn't be the first time, but still. I think when the debt limit came in during the war, it was probably a way to allow the executive more leeway while still retaining ultimate spending power in the Congress. It is, in itself, a compromise on the constitutional intent. Again maybe not unconstitutional on those grounds, but...squishy.

[CountDeMoney]

I was hoping there would be a new different argument for the ceiling to be unconstitutional in that piece, but alas. I think McConnell's plan sounds much more unconstitutional to me, as it's sort of delegating part of the powers of the purse to the executive. Maybe not outright unconstitutional, but certainly making the separation of powers more squishy than intended. Wouldn't be the first time, but still. I think when the debt limit came in during the war, it was probably a way to allow the executive more leeway while still retaining ultimate spending power in the Congress. It is, in itself, a compromise on the constitutional intent. Again maybe not unconstitutional on those grounds, but...squishy.

Doesn't matter; the President will do it, and the Supreme Court will rule it unconstitutional 5-4.  Fuck it all.

[Habbaku]

Oh and here's my bet with Yi.  The next Republican to win the Presidency will increase the deficit under his/her administration.  If I am correct I get to have my way with his current girlfriend.  If I'm wrong, I have to be Yi's personal assassin and kill one person of his choice.

In nominal terms, real terms, % of GDP, or % of government expenditure?

I don't understand any of that.  This could possibly be a problem.

Nominal = amount by simple numbers.  100 = 100.
Real = amount adjusted for inflation.  100 in 1950 != 100 in 2000.
% of GDP is just what it says.
% of government expenditure means that, if the deficit makes up 20% of current expenditure, but it rises to 30% of expenditure, then the deficit would be considered to have gone up even if spending went dramatically down (which would assume revenues did likewise).

I think I parsed that last one correctly.

[Razgovory]

So you down to buying guns and canned food now, Seedy?

[Ed Anger]

I've got gold. Raz's favorite investment.

[CountDeMoney]

So you down to buying guns and canned food now, Seedy?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/index.asp

You tell them I'm coming, and Hell's coming with me.

[alfred russel]

McConnell fall-back plan would leave debt-ceiling hikes to Obama


Doesn't that plan defeat the whole purpose to limit big government, which is the bulk of the Tea Party's whole economic "ideology"?  Yeah, give the Executive more power to increase the debt limit arbitrarily, especially when the Prez has has a Majority in Congress, that would mean less government and less federal involvement.

Their pinning their hopes that the American people believe that raising the debt ceiling is as big a deal as the GOP's making it out to be, like it's some sort of catastrophic paradigm-changer, and they can then blame the President for doing...something.

Either way, they think the key to 2012 is blaming the President.  For jobs.  For the deficit reduction.  For raising the debt ceiling.  Anything.  Anything at all.

More than anything that has gone before, it shows the Republicans to be nothing more than partisan hostages to the tea party that don't really want anything to do with actually governing. This would just mean that they effectively cave on the debt limit, but can pin all the debt increases on Obama and don't have to defend their debt limit votes to their know nothing base.

[Neil]

So you down to buying guns and canned food now, Seedy?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenship/index.asp

You tell them I'm coming, and Hell's coming with me.

You do realize that there's a clause in the Canadian Pledge of Allegiance about football having only 3 downs, right?