[Canadian Election Results] Harper vs Iggy vs the 'stache

[Neil]

Don't overstate your case there.  It's not like the seperatist point of view is the only legitimate one in Quebec.

You know I do think you're the most lucid of all Canadians here.  And it is to your credit.  You are right of course, Quebecers did chose to give Canada another chance, in a way.  But judging by your peers' reactions, it's only a matter of time before another disillusion materializes.  One has to plan for the long term. 

You do have a good point there.  I wonder how things will turn out, and what sort of candidates the caucus from Quebec will turn out to be.  After all, most of those people never thought they'd get elected, and didn't really have much in the way of plans at all.  We'll have to see how much of a Quebec bent they'll be taking, and how strong they'll be in five years.

I wonder if my relative lucidity is relative to my ability to understand and speak the French language? 

[Tonitrus]

Maybe I am just an ignorant American...but what good is a separatist party that never achieves, or gets anywhere close to achieving, their goal? 

[Barrister]

I am passionate about politics.  If that makes me seem like a sports fan, there's not much I can do about it.

I do not share the usual Languishite's scorn of partisanship. I think it is commendable to stand for a party, and play the game of politics. But there is a difference between a sports fan that will gracefully shake hands with the losers, and a hooligan that screams "you lose, suckers!" to the other team.

(That being said, I think you go only unfrequently into "hooliganism" territory).

I think I've gone out of my way to avoid heaping scorn on the Liberals and NDP.  It's the Bloc which I don't treat so gracefully.

[katmai]

Maybe I am just an ignorant American...but what good is a separatist party that never achieves, or gets anywhere close to achieving, their goal? 

I can ask my AIP friends.

[Oexmelin]

I wonder if my relative lucidity is relative to my ability to understand and speak the French language? 

As I said, it certainly gives you a better understanding of some of the peculiarities of Quebec's political life.

I don't know if lucidity is a word I would use to characterize your internet persona.

[katmai]

I wonder if my relative lucidity is relative to my ability to understand and speak the French language? 

As I said, it certainly gives you a better understanding of some of the peculiarities of Quebec's political life.

I don't know if lucidity is a word I would use to characterize your internet persona.

[Monoriu]

I don't know what to say about that.  I am NOT non-partisan, and I am not unbiased.  I am an enthusiastic supporter of the Conservatives.  And a night like tonight...  21 years ago I remember going out to Reform Party meetings when we were some wacky fringe party who had just elected our first MP in a rural Alberta by-election, and in Manitoba we were polling low single digits.  And now... with so many of the people from Reform in power - we ARE the government.  At times I didn't think it would take this long, but at times I never thought it would happen.

I am passionate about politics.  If that makes me seem like a sports fan, there's not much I can do about it.

I don't pay much attention to Canadian politics, but I remember the Reform party.  When I was in Vancouver, I saw posters denouncing its leader (something Manning) everywhere in university campus.  I only went to classes but even I couldn't miss those posters.  When I listened to Chinese radio, the normally apolitical talk show hosts fiercely opposed Reform.  Reason: it was anti-immigrant, or at least it was perceived to be. 

[Oexmelin]

Maybe I am just an ignorant American...but what good is a separatist party that never achieves, or gets anywhere close to achieving, their goal? 

This is a frequent comment (so it has nothing to do with you being an ignorant American) but it is the result of the distorsion of our political life, that the legitimacy of the MPs is being constantly undermined by the concentration of power within the Cabinet. Yet, in the British parliamentary system, sovereignty lies in the Parliament itself, and deputies still yield power to influence and shape laws and political debates.

[Barrister]

If the NDP screw up, which is almost certain given all the rookie MPs they will have going to Ottawa, the Provincial Separatists will have a field day.

They already have, in no small part thanks to the Provincial Liberals' tremendous ineptitude. A lot of the quality MPs of the Bloc will no doubt turn to Provincial political life. It is going to be interesting to see how the massive Quebec support to the NDP (nearly two thirds of the NDP caucus!) will transform (or not) the party.

Absolutely.  While the Conservative Majority is the headline of the night, how the NDP manages this tremendous opportunity is #2.

This could be a tremendous realignment in Canadian politics.  These things happen rarely, but they do happen, and sometimes all at once.

On the other hand, there are plenty of one election wonders.  The NDP Government in Ontario.  The ADQ in Quebec. The COR in New Brunswick.  The Liberals in Manitoba in 1988.  Plenty of pitfalls - in particular with so many unknown and inexperienced MPs.  I know Reform wound up electing more than a few duds in 1993.

[Barrister]

I don't know what to say about that.  I am NOT non-partisan, and I am not unbiased.  I am an enthusiastic supporter of the Conservatives.  And a night like tonight...  21 years ago I remember going out to Reform Party meetings when we were some wacky fringe party who had just elected our first MP in a rural Alberta by-election, and in Manitoba we were polling low single digits.  And now... with so many of the people from Reform in power - we ARE the government.  At times I didn't think it would take this long, but at times I never thought it would happen.

I am passionate about politics.  If that makes me seem like a sports fan, there's not much I can do about it.

I don't pay much attention to Canadian politics, but I remember the Reform party.  When I was in Vancouver, I saw posters denouncing its leader (something Manning) everywhere in university campus.  I only went to classes but even I couldn't miss those posters.  When I listened to Chinese radio, the normally apolitical talk show hosts fiercely opposed Reform.  Reason: it was anti-immigrant, or at least it was perceived to be.

According to a sound bite from Jason Kenney (the Minister of Immigration) the Conservative Party was polling a majority, or two-thirds (I can't remember which), of Chinese Canadians.

The "anti-immigrant" label against Reform was largely false, but to be fair they did at the time call for reductions in the overall # of immigrants being allowed in.

[Grallon]

I don't know if lucidity is a word I would use to characterize your internet persona.

Oh sometimes his mask drops and he stops the trolling.  I'm getting ... proficient at sniffing those rare instances out.

-----

Take Layton's speech right now.  The disillusion is beginning under our very eyes.  He's talking about a Canadian vision - as in a one unitary country...  This, right there, doesn't bode well - for Canada *cackles*.




G.

[Rex Francorum]

Will there be a merging of NPD-Liberal Party?

[Neil]

This is a frequent comment (so it has nothing to do with you being an ignorant American) but it is the result of the distorsion of our political life, that the legitimacy of the MPs is being constantly undermined by the concentration of power within the Cabinet. Yet, in the British parliamentary system, sovereignty lies in the Parliament itself, and deputies still yield power to influence and shape laws and political debates.

That's an unavoidable effect of modern technology and media.

[Oexmelin]

When I listened to Chinese radio, the normally apolitical talk show hosts fiercely opposed Reform.  Reason: it was anti-immigrant, or at least it was perceived to be.

The Cons. had to walk a fine line. On the one hand, they now like immigrants, because they've come to realize many come from socially conservative backgrounds. On the other hand, they wanted to keep their fringe anti-immigrant early supporters. By now, I think the gambit was that the first group was fresh for the taking, while the second is more or less loyal to them. The take now was to subtly play on the fear of terrorism that some immigrant groups are supposed to represent (the manipulation of the whole Tamil incident struck me as especially cynical), and on their "law and order" stance - toughening immigration regulations on the pretext of "exploitation of refugees by human trafickers". 

[Barrister]

Considering the majority of Layton's caucus is from Quebec, you'd think he'd be speaking a lot more French.