Who the hell is an immigrant?

[Pat]

Well I personally think we should welcome the fertility drops. We have too many people as it is now anyway and this a nice non-violent solution. Also: less people = less people to share the earth's resources = higher global standard of living and all else equal a nicer world.

edit: I know what you'll say so please note the birth rates have been dropping in the arab world as well :p

[Eddie Teach]

I have standards, you know?

If you don't know, why would we?

[Razgovory]

Malthus isn't iron-bound law, of course. But if you read a book like Jared Diamond's "Collapse", for example, where he goes through the collapses of several different civilizations, you'll see Malthus was not entirely wrong either (of course he doesn't explicitly state that his approach to the topic is a malthusian one but if you read it it will become evident).

BTW I don't think I ever encountered Malthus in Swedish schools (except possibly in relation to Dickens or in similar negative light) so they hardly teach Malthus as gospel. Swedish schools do however teach you to think for yourself. There is of course gospel but the lutheran heritage of personally reading it and making up your own mind about it is still live and well.

I suppose Americans can be forgiven for not understanding Malthus, however, considering their history is one of nearly unlimited land rand and resources there for the taking for those with pioneer spirit (and I suppose they must also be forgiven, in a sense, for still seeing the whole world this way - forgiven, but still opposed).

[Pat]

Care to elaborate?

[Razgovory]

Care to elaborate?

Okay,

[Pat]

In words?

[Viking]

In words?

Probably something about the world and it's resources not being a pie of constant size that is divided between the remaining survivors.

[Pat]

The world is not of constant size? We can grow it bigger?

[Slargos]

The world is not of constant size? We can grow it bigger?

You haven't been watching Fringe. There are alternate universes which if we can develop the technology properly, we can access and by exchanging useless mass like rock, mud or Americans we can steal their resources. They're just alternate-us-es and thus have no rights in this universe.

[Pat]

Well that would certainly change things, I suppose.

[Slargos]

If we make the thefts small enough from every alternate dimension they will never catch on. This will propel our technological revolution into the solarsystem where we can harness asteroids to continue the dastardly work. Of course, this infinite source of resources may make us complacent and we will never colonize Alpha Centauri, thus risking a planet ending event to kill us all.

[Josquius]

The world is not of constant size? We can grow it bigger?

You haven't been watching Fringe. There are alternate universes which if we can develop the technology properly, we can access and by exchanging useless mass like rock, mud or Americans we can steal their resources. They're just alternate-us-es and thus have no rights in this universe.

That's what Fringe is about?
I stopped after the first episode or two where it seemed to be a silly x-filesy show.
If we could access alternate worlds then why steal resources from ones that are like ours? Why not just go to the zillions of humanless worlds.
Anyway, its never going to happen, access to the multiverse would be the end of civilization.

[grumbler]

I think Slargos said it well: "...as long as you have population growth, you're eventually going to run into the wall. Unless of course the wall can be moved."

Except that this isn't what Malthus said at all.  This is so trite that no one, I suspect, wants to claim it as their own.

I suppose Swedes can be forgiven for not understanding Malthus, however, considering their history is one of nearly unlimited peonage and the idea that resources there for the taking for those with the willingness to use forcel or the ability to collaborate with totalitarians (and I suppose they must also be forgiven, in a sense, for still seeing the whole world this way - forgiven, but still opposed).

[Slargos]

The world is not of constant size? We can grow it bigger?

You haven't been watching Fringe. There are alternate universes which if we can develop the technology properly, we can access and by exchanging useless mass like rock, mud or Americans we can steal their resources. They're just alternate-us-es and thus have no rights in this universe.

That's what Fringe is about?
I stopped after the first episode or two where it seemed to be a silly x-filesy show.
If we could access alternate worlds then why steal resources from ones that are like ours? Why not just go to the zillions of humanless worlds.
Anyway, its never going to happen, access to the multiverse would be the end of civilization.

No, it really isn't. But it could be.

[Slargos]

I think Slargos said it well: "...as long as you have population growth, you're eventually going to run into the wall. Unless of course the wall can be moved."

Except that this isn't what Malthus said at all.  This is so trite that no one, I suspect, wants to claim it as their own.

I suppose Swedes can be forgiven for not understanding Malthus, however, considering their history is one of nearly unlimited peonage and the idea that resources there for the taking for those with the willingness to use forcel or the ability to collaborate with totalitarians (and I suppose they must also be forgiven, in a sense, for still seeing the whole world this way - forgiven, but still opposed).

Coming from an American, this is so rich. Thanks for making my day.