The Fed Shutdown Poll and Megathread

[CountDeMoney]

I dunno...if I were a politician, particularly a black one Teabaggers hate, I'd have had a change of heart regarding the debt ceiling vote I cast in 2006 after seeing the 2008 meltdown and following carnage which I would be dealing with today, even as a black politician Teabaggers hate.

Which gets us to where we were previously.  If you were a politician, particularly a black on Teabaggers hate, why would the 2008 meltdown have caused your thinking about voting against lifting the debt ceiling to change?

Because now it has to.  The 2008 crash has exponentially magnified the damage done to the economy by the Bush administration, which was still relatively salvageable in 2006.  The debt ceiling must go up.

[Admiral Yi]

Because now it has to.  The 2008 crash has exponentially magnified the damage done to the economy by the Bush administration, which was still relatively salvageable in 2006.  The debt ceiling must go up.

I thought that was your assumption but didn't want to put words in your mouth.

Breaching the debt ceiling is a disaster regardless of economic health.

[CountDeMoney]

Breaching the debt ceiling is a disaster regardless of economic health.

It's a viable alternative if we insist on not raising revenue.

[CountDeMoney]

Watching the Today Show now; Michelle Bachmann is going to be a fantastic GOP nominee.

[grumbler]

What is less commendable, even for black politicians Teabaggers hate, is to have that moment of ephiphany right at the moment when it is in your political self-interest to do so.  Obama has had 5 years to reflect on that particular vote, but it wasn't until he was on the other end of the game of nuclear chicken that he discovered it's a bad choice.

Why do you assume that Obama discovered that he had made a mistake only moments before you heard about it?  Is it acceptable for a politician to realize he made a mistake and even if their advisers don't tell you about it until it becomes newsworthy?

[grumbler]

Breaching the debt ceiling is a disaster regardless of economic health.

Agreed, but Obama wasn't voting to breach the debt ceiling in 2006, so your point is moot for this discussion.

[KRonn]

Watching the Today Show now; Michelle Bachmann is going to be a fantastic GOP nominee.

Maybe she and Trump can run as Pres/VP.   

[Hansmeister]

What is less commendable, even for black politicians Teabaggers hate, is to have that moment of ephiphany right at the moment when it is in your political self-interest to do so.  Obama has had 5 years to reflect on that particular vote, but it wasn't until he was on the other end of the game of nuclear chicken that he discovered it's a bad choice.

Why do you assume that Obama discovered that he had made a mistake only moments before you heard about it?  Is it acceptable for a politician to realize he made a mistake and even if their advisers don't tell you about it until it becomes newsworthy?

Maybe because the WH as recently as last month defended the 2006 vote?

[HisMajestyBOB]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/12/summary-fiscal-2011-budget/:/
Fox's summary of the 2011 budget plan:

Overall Spending Limit: The final CR will include a total of $1.049 trillion in funding, a nearly $40 billion reduction from last year's (fiscal year 2010) levels. This includes the $12 billion in reductions previously approved by Congress and signed into law under the previous three continuing resolutions, as well as nearly $28 billion in additional new spending cuts.

Agriculture: The CR funds Agriculture programs at $20 billion, which is $3 billion below the fiscal year 2010 enacted level and $3.2 billion below the President's 2011 budget request.

The bill provides $1 billion for Food Safety and Inspection, which is $10 million below the fiscal year 2010 level, while allowing for uninterrupted meat, poultry, and egg products inspection activities of the agency. The bill also reduces Agricultural Credit Programs by $433 million, Agricultural Research Service by $64 million, and the National Institute for Food and Agriculture by $125.9 million below the fiscal year 2010 levels. 

The CR also includes $6.75 billion for the Special Supplemental Feeding Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC), which allows the program to support more than 9 million income-eligible mothers, infants, and children up to 5 years of age.

Commerce, Justice, Science: The Commerce, Justice, Science section of the CR contains a total of $53.4 billion, a $10.9 billion, or 17%, reduction from fiscal year 2010 levels, and a reduction of $7.1 billion, or 12%, from the President's fiscal year 2011 request.

The CR provides funding above fiscal year 2010 levels for National Institute of Standards and Technology research and manufacturing programs, as well as critical FBI national security and prisons/detention requirements. Justice Department appropriations are reduced by $946 million below fiscal year 2010, with significant reductions to grant and construction programs, and Commerce Department appropriations are cut by $6.5 billion below fiscal year 2010. The bill also includes $18.5 billion for NASA and fully funds the newly authorized exploration program.

This section of the CR also prohibits funding for: the establishment of a Climate Service at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration; the approval of new fisheries catch-share programs in certain fisheries; and for NASA and the Office of Science and Technology Policy to engage in bilateral activities with China.
Defense Funding: The Department of Defense is funded at $513 billion in the CR - approximately $5 billion above last year - providing the necessary resources for the safety of our troops and the success of our nation's military actions. The bill also includes an additional $157.8 billion for overseas contingency operations (emergency funding) to advance our missions abroad.

The Defense section of this legislation includes $126.7 billion for military personnel, providing for 1,432,400 active duty and 846,200 reserve troops. In addition, the bill contains a total of $165.6 billion for operations and maintenance, $102.1 billion for procurement, $75 billion for research and development, and $31.4 billion for Defense health programs. This legislation eliminates all Defense earmark account funding, a cut of $4.2 billion from last year's level.

The CR also includes language preventing Guantanamo Bay detainees from being transferred into the United States for any purpose, prevents the construction or modification of detention facilities within the U.S. for the housing of detainees, and requires the Secretary of Defense to provide a certification to Congress that a transfer of any detainee to any foreign country or entity will not jeopardize the safety of the U.S. or its citizens. This language is virtually identical to existing law that was included in the National Defense Authorization Act

Energy and Water: The Energy and Water section is funded at $31.8 billion in the CR. This is a 10% reduction - or $3.6 billion - from the President's fiscal year 2011 request, and a 5% reduction - or $1.7 billion - from fiscal year 2010 levels. These significant cuts further the House Republican commitment to deficit reduction and reining in the size of government, while at the same time protecting American security, providing support for private sector growth, and promoting a balanced national energy supply. 

The bill funds the Army Corps of Engineers at the President's request level of $4.9 billion, supports existing applications for renewable energy loan guarantees at the Department of Energy, and provides a $697 million (7%) increase for the National Nuclear Security Administration to ensure adequate funding for critical components of our national defense.

Financial Services: The Financial Services and General Government section of the CR contains a total of $22 billion, a $2.4 billion, or 10%, reduction from fiscal year 2010 levels, and a reduction of $3.4 billion, or 14%, from the President's fiscal year 2011 request.

The CR reduces most Treasury and Executive Office of the President accounts and reduces funding for construction of new federal buildings by more than $800 million. The bill provides a $13 million increase over last year for the Inspector General of Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) to provide strong oversight of the billions of dollars remaining in TARP assets and continues current funding for drug task forces and programs to assist small businesses.

The CR restores a long-standing provision against the use of federal and local funds for abortions in the District of Columbia. The bill also includes the reauthorization of the DC Opportunity Scholarships, along with a $2.3 million funding increase, to stop the termination of the program and allow new students to participate. The legislation also eliminates four Administration "Czars," including the "Health Care Czar," the "Climate Change Czar," the "Car Czar," and the "Urban Affairs Czar."

Homeland Security: A total of $41.8 billion in discretionary funding is provided for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) for fiscal year 2011. This is $784 million, or 2%, below FY 2010, and $1.9 billion, or 4%, below the President's fiscal year 2011 request.

All critical frontline operations for DHS - including Customs and Border Protection, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Transportation Security Agency, the Coast Guard, and the Secret Service are sufficiently funded to meet mission requirements and sustain staffing levels. This includes funding for 21,370 Border Patrol agents, 33,400 ICE detention beds, and military pay and allowances for the U.S. Coast Guard. The bill reduces CBP's Border Security Fencing, Infrastructure, and Technology (BSFIT) account to the President's request, reduces FEMA first responder grants by $786 million, eliminates $264 million in funding that was previously targeted to earmarks, and rescinds $557 million in unobligated and lapsed balances from prior year funds. The bill also caps the amount of TSA screener personnel at 46,000.

The bill also includes $1.05 billion in additional discretionary funding (for a total of $2.65 billion, including current funds) for the costs of existing and expected disasters for fiscal year 2011.

Interior: The CR includes $29.6 billion in discretionary funding in the Interior and Environment section of the bill, which is 8.1%, or $2.62 billion, below the fiscal year 2010 enacted level and 8.5%, or $2.8 billion, below the President's request.

The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is reduced by $1.6 billion, a 16% decrease from last year's level. The cuts to the EPA alone represent 61% of the bill's reduction compared to last year's level. Funding levels for Land and Water Conservation Fund (land acquisition) programs are reduced $149 million (-33%), climate change funding bill-wide is cut by $49 million (-13%), and funding for the National Endowment for the Arts and the National Endowment for the Humanities is reduced by a combined $25 million from last year's levels.

Funding levels for operational accounts bill-wide are largely sustained to prevent layoffs and the closure of national parks and forests, wildlife refuges, Smithsonian museums and other sites. In addition, the legislation contains language reinstating the Fish and Wildlife Service's original determination to delist wolves in states with approved management plans in place. It returns management of wolf populations in Idaho, Montana, Oregon, Washington, and Utah to the states. The bill also includes a limitation on the use of funds to implement the Bureau of Land Management's "Wild Lands" policy.

Labor, HHS, Education and Related Agencies: The Labor, HHS, Education and Related Agencies section of the CR contains a total of $157.7 billion, roughly a $5.5 billion, or 3.36%, reduction from fiscal year 2010 levels. The bill is also nearly $13 billion, or 7.6 percent, below the President's fiscal year 2011 request.

The CR preserves funding for large education programs that fund elementary and secondary schools as well as special education and provides a modest increase for Head Start to ensure that all children currently enrolled will continue to receive services, while making prudent reductions in lower priority areas. In addition, the bill continues the Pell Grant Program at the current maximum award level of $4,860.

The CR terminates funding for more than 55 programs, for a total savings of well over $1 billion. In addition, the bill terminates two programs funded in ObamaCare (the Consumer Operated and Oriented Plan (CO-OP) and the Free Choice Voucher programs). The bill makes reforms to the Pell Grant Program that are estimated to save more than $35 billion over the next 10 years by eliminating the ability of students to draw down two Pell Grant awards at the same time. Finally, the CR will return Title X funding to fiscal year 2008 levels.

Legislative Branch: Legislative Branch is reduced by $103 million from last year's levels. Of this amount, funding for the U.S. House is reduced by $55 million from last year - or 53% of the total cut - and reflects a 5% cut in Member, Committee, and Leadership office expenses except for the Appropriations Committee, which offered a larger cut of 9%.

Military Construction/Veterans Affairs: Military Construction/Veterans Affairs programs will receive $76.6 billion in discretionary funding - an increase of $3.4 billion over the President's fiscal year 2011 request and an increase of $600 million over last year's level. Within this funding, the bill provides critical and necessary resources for veterans' health and benefits, including an increase of $13.8 billion for the Department of Veterans affairs over last year's level. Military Construction accounts are reduced by approximately $10 billion below last year's level. 

State and Foreign Operations: The funding level for the State Department and Foreign Operations in the CR is a total of $48.3 billion - a $504 million reduction from last year's level and an $8.4 billion reduction from the President's fiscal year 2011 request.

This section of the legislation includes a prohibition on pay raises for foreign services officers, a $377 million cut to U.S. contributions to the United Nations and international organizations, and a $130 million cut to international banks and financial institutions. In addition, the bill reduces family planning activities by $73 million - including a reduction in the UN Population Fund to fiscal year 2008 levels - and maintains pro-life policy provisions carried in fiscal year 2010.

Transportation, Housing and Urban Development: The Transportation, Housing, Urban Development and Related Agencies section of the CR contains a total of $55.5 billion, a $12.3 billion, or 18%, reduction from fiscal year 2010 levels, and a reduction of $13.2 billion, or 20%, from the President's fiscal year 2011 request.

For the Department of Transportation, the bill eliminates new funding for High Speed Rail and rescinds $400 million in previous year funds, for a total reduction of $2.9 billion from fiscal year 2010 levels. The bill reduces funding for transit by a total of $991 million and includes a total of $528 million in new funding for the "TIGER" grant program. While the majority of programs funded by the Highway Trust Fund remain at fiscal year 2010 levels, the bill contains total contract authority rescissions of $3.2 billion, of which $630 million is comprised of old earmarks.

For the Department of Housing and Urban Development, the Community Development Fund program was reduced $942 million, for a fiscal year 2011 funding level of $3.5 billion. The Section 8 program is funded at a level of $18.4 billion with $16.7 billion for voucher renewals, $1.45 billion for administrative fees, $35 million for Section 811 mainstream voucher renewals, and $50 million for HUD-Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing (VASH) vouchers.

For a list of highlighted program cuts, please visit**: http://republicans.appropriations.house.gov/_files/41211Finalprogramcuts.pdf

For the text of the legislation, please visit: www.rules.house.gov

*All non-defense funding levels within this summary DO NOT include a 0.2% across the board reduction included in the legislation that applies to all non-defense programs, projects, and accounts.

**This list contains highlighted program cuts. This list is not comprehensive of all program funding levels in the legislation. In addition, the totals DO NOT reflect the overall across the board cut of 0.2% to all non-defense programs.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/04/12/summary-fiscal-2011-budget/#ixzz1JQ7U8J7n

Won't be long before we're forced to conduct all our diplomacy through DOD.
And why not other government departments?
Roads falling apart? No one wants to fund transportation? Set up a DOD Transportation Agency and send the money through that, using USACE to fix the roads!
Everyone wants to slash your agricultural subsidies? Hey, the military could probably use ethanol (and if not, Congress will force them to)! Set up a DOD Agriculture Agency and funnel the subsidies through that!

[MadImmortalMan]

There's a dam breaking in Minnesota from all the snowmelt...

[Razgovory]

What is less commendable, even for black politicians Teabaggers hate, is to have that moment of ephiphany right at the moment when it is in your political self-interest to do so.  Obama has had 5 years to reflect on that particular vote, but it wasn't until he was on the other end of the game of nuclear chicken that he discovered it's a bad choice.

Why do you assume that Obama discovered that he had made a mistake only moments before you heard about it?  Is it acceptable for a politician to realize he made a mistake and even if their advisers don't tell you about it until it becomes newsworthy?

Maybe because the WH as recently as last month defended the 2006 vote?

This is what I loved about you conservatives with Clinton.  When Clinton did something you didn't like, he was an arch-liberal fiend.  When he did something you wanted, you hated him even more.  Then he was chasing polls, and lacking leadership.

I see the same thing here.  Are you guys going to be honest with this time and just try to impeach him?

[The Larch]

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-real-housewives-of-wall-street-look-whos-cashing-in-on-the-bailout-20110411?page=1

[Caliga]

This is what I loved about you conservatives with Clinton.  When Clinton did something you didn't like, he was an arch-liberal fiend.  When he did something you wanted, you hated him even more.  Then he was chasing polls, and lacking leadership.

I see the same thing here.  Are you guys going to be honest with this time and just try to impeach him?

The only GOP charge about Clinton that annoyed me was the whole "he rules by poll" thing.  Last time I checked we don't elect a term-limited Dictator, we elect a President who is charged with carrying out the will of the people.  I don't see why it's a bad thing for him to change his policies if he perceives that it's what the country needs and wants.  Actually in my mind that makes a person a GOOD leader, not a bad one.

[Neil]

This is what I loved about you conservatives with Clinton.  When Clinton did something you didn't like, he was an arch-liberal fiend.  When he did something you wanted, you hated him even more.  Then he was chasing polls, and lacking leadership.

I see the same thing here.  Are you guys going to be honest with this time and just try to impeach him?

The only GOP charge about Clinton that annoyed me was the whole "he rules by poll" thing.  Last time I checked we don't elect a term-limited Dictator, we elect a President who is charged with carrying out the will of the people.  I don't see why it's a bad thing for him to change his policies if he perceives that it's what the country needs and wants.  Actually in my mind that makes a person a GOOD leader, not a bad one.

Well, you have an exceptionally limited mind, don't you?  Your kind of thinking has caused enormous damage to the modern democracies.

[grumbler]

The only GOP charge about Clinton that annoyed me was the whole "he rules by poll" thing.  Last time I checked we don't elect a term-limited Dictator, we elect a President who is charged with carrying out the will of the people.  I don't see why it's a bad thing for him to change his policies if he perceives that it's what the country needs and wants.  Actually in my mind that makes a person a GOOD leader, not a bad one.

I'd say it depends on what means by "the polls."  Most opinion polls are devised to produce a specific answer.  One cannot chase those kinds of polls, or justify policies by arguing that the policy is what "the people want" according to those kinds of polls.

If well-designed polls indicate a shift in peoples' thinking, then a wise politician certainly pays heed to that change in opinion.  If the change of opinion makes a change in policy seem like a better option, then one should be willing to change policies. 

Example:  if the majority of the public believes the big lie that "taxation is theft," then trying to increase tax revenue by increasing tax rates will likely lead to failure due to increased tax evasion rates, and a wise policy will eschew tax increases.  If Reliable polling later indicates that people have changed their mind and think higher taxes are an acceptable solution to fiscal problems, one should be willing to change fiscal policies.