Calling all lawyers (and other sundry old people)

[Count]

verrry interesting. Hmm.

yeah the debt is ridiculous. But the starting salaries are ridiculous too, and the legal job market is abysmal right now. The advice I saw was either pay for an elite school that still has good job opportunities or just try to get a full ride from a lower ranked one. There are some ways to manage the debt if you don't do big law (which again, everyone seems to hate, and although I won't be a filthy hippy forever I can't imagine doing big law for more than a few years to pay off debt before transitioning to something else). There are loan repayment plans for public interest work, and income based repayment plans for people who make under a certain threshold- anyone have experience with either? Jaba, what are you looking at post-grad? Alternatively, I could always live under a bridge.

I'm still hoping to get a scholarship from a lower ranked school.

but, as a proud public school alum... I kind of want the brand name law school. Isn't it a guaranteed ride to a lifetime of hookers and blow? (more than just that, I'm excited about going to a law school where everyone is super smart and engaged)

i'm still quite unsure, and I'll take my time deciding, but thanks everyone for the advice. Does whatshisname, the sharp lawyer from NYC, still post here?

and BB: that's interesting. My resume is kind of crap and I never had that summer interning at a local firm, so I felt like I should shore it up, but I'll keep what you said in mind.

also, to be clear, I'm doing a year off right now, but not really doing anything that exciting. So if I deferred, it'd be two years, albeit hopefully with cooler things going on. Would two years look bad?

[Count]

Count - law school? Really?

Do you really want to be a lawyer? Why not do something interesting, like the state department, or intelligence (NSA or something)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

I'm interested in "constitutional issues." Plus, I've always wanted to be a lawyer, and I want to check off that life goal. More practically, I feel like I'd get a great education at law school and there are a number of legal careers that seem intellectually stimulating, challenging, and well (or at least decently) paying. And there are other careers that are challenging and quite poor paying, but really worthwhile. The problem is the debt- it hampers any movement so if I decide I hate it, I can't just give it up and do something else. I'm sure I want to be a lawyer now, but I'm not sure I want to be a lawyer in 20 years.

[Grey Fox]

NYC lawyer is Minsky.

[Count]

NYC lawyer is Minsky.

ah. Don't tell him I called him sharp.

[Caliga]

I actually think he's a bit more flat than sharp.

[MadImmortalMan]

I'm interested in "constitutional issues."

Doesn't sound like it would pay the bills on all that debt.

[Caliga]

I look at it this way.  Yes, you gotta spend money to make money... but if by spending money, you ain't gonna make money, then don't spend the money in the first place.

[Berkut]

Count - law school? Really?

Do you really want to be a lawyer? Why not do something interesting, like the state department, or intelligence (NSA or something)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

I'm interested in "constitutional issues." Plus, I've always wanted to be a lawyer, and I want to check off that life goal. More practically, I feel like I'd get a great education at law school and there are a number of legal careers that seem intellectually stimulating, challenging, and well (or at least decently) paying. And there are other careers that are challenging and quite poor paying, but really worthwhile. The problem is the debt- it hampers any movement so if I decide I hate it, I can't just give it up and do something else. I'm sure I want to be a lawyer now, but I'm not sure I want to be a lawyer in 20 years.

LOL, I immediately thought of that video (I think Minsky posted it a while back) when I saw your post.

[Count]

Count - law school? Really?

Do you really want to be a lawyer? Why not do something interesting, like the state department, or intelligence (NSA or something)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

I'm interested in "constitutional issues." Plus, I've always wanted to be a lawyer, and I want to check off that life goal. More practically, I feel like I'd get a great education at law school and there are a number of legal careers that seem intellectually stimulating, challenging, and well (or at least decently) paying. And there are other careers that are challenging and quite poor paying, but really worthwhile. The problem is the debt- it hampers any movement so if I decide I hate it, I can't just give it up and do something else. I'm sure I want to be a lawyer now, but I'm not sure I want to be a lawyer in 20 years.

LOL, I immediately thought of that video (I think Minsky posted it a while back) when I saw your post.

yeah it is disturbingly, disturbingly accurate. I think I've said verbatim "I'll take out a few loans." One of the things I like about this career path is that bitter, disillusioned lawyers are hilarious.

[Barrister]

Count - law school? Really?

Do you really want to be a lawyer? Why not do something interesting, like the state department, or intelligence (NSA or something)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

I'm interested in "constitutional issues." Plus, I've always wanted to be a lawyer, and I want to check off that life goal. More practically, I feel like I'd get a great education at law school and there are a number of legal careers that seem intellectually stimulating, challenging, and well (or at least decently) paying. And there are other careers that are challenging and quite poor paying, but really worthwhile. The problem is the debt- it hampers any movement so if I decide I hate it, I can't just give it up and do something else. I'm sure I want to be a lawyer now, but I'm not sure I want to be a lawyer in 20 years.

Well at least you didn't say "internatinal law".

What kind of "constitutional issues" do you think you'd like to be involved in?  And, by the way, cosntitutional law is litigation, which is quite distinct from corporate law / securities / M&A / commercial real estate.

I dunno - I didn't graduate with a tenth of that debt.  Very few of my classmates got the BIGLAW kind of job, but it didn't matter that much because we weren't slaves to the debt.  I did get the western Canadian equivalent to that kind of firm, but even 10 years ago the salary was only $50k (and that was a big raise from two years earlier where you started in the 30s).  So when I was tossed after two years, I was able to manage, and eventually settled in criminal prosecutions which I quite enjoy.

Remember that biglaw firms eat their young.  The use you for several years, then toss you.  Hopefully in the mean time you can line up a cushy landing spot in a smaller firm, or in-house, or wherever.  And that's assuming you even get such a job.  As you are aware, the US legal job market sucks right now.

[ulmont]

One of the things I like about this career path is that bitter, disillusioned lawyers are hilarious.

Hilarious up until the point that you join us.  After that the "joke" wears a bit thin.

[Barrister]

One of the things I like about this career path is that bitter, disillusioned lawyers are hilarious.

Hilarious up until the point that you join us.  After that the "joke" wears a bit thin.

Indeed - bitter, disillusioned lawyers are generally not much fun to have on the other side of a file. 

[Count]

Count - law school? Really?

Do you really want to be a lawyer? Why not do something interesting, like the state department, or intelligence (NSA or something)?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMvARy0lBLE

I'm interested in "constitutional issues." Plus, I've always wanted to be a lawyer, and I want to check off that life goal. More practically, I feel like I'd get a great education at law school and there are a number of legal careers that seem intellectually stimulating, challenging, and well (or at least decently) paying. And there are other careers that are challenging and quite poor paying, but really worthwhile. The problem is the debt- it hampers any movement so if I decide I hate it, I can't just give it up and do something else. I'm sure I want to be a lawyer now, but I'm not sure I want to be a lawyer in 20 years.

Well at least you didn't say "internatinal law".

What kind of "constitutional issues" do you think you'd like to be involved in?  And, by the way, cosntitutional law is litigation, which is quite distinct from corporate law / securities / M&A / commercial real estate.

I dunno - I didn't graduate with a tenth of that debt.  Very few of my classmates got the BIGLAW kind of job, but it didn't matter that much because we weren't slaves to the debt.  I did get the western Canadian equivalent to that kind of firm, but even 10 years ago the salary was only $50k (and that was a big raise from two years earlier where you started in the 30s).  So when I was tossed after two years, I was able to manage, and eventually settled in criminal prosecutions which I quite enjoy.

Remember that biglaw firms eat their young.  The use you for several years, then toss you.  Hopefully in the mean time you can line up a cushy landing spot in a smaller firm, or in-house, or wherever.  And that's assuming you even get such a job.  As you are aware, the US legal job market sucks right now.

well, working as a staff attorney for the aclu someday would be a dream job. I don't really know how to make that happen- those positions are extremely competitive- but that would be amazing. I want to retain some idealism even as I try to take a realistic view. There are a number of public interest jobs in different fields that I'm interested in, too, and they would qualify for loan repayment (get rid of the debt in ten years, I believe). From what I understand it is actually harder to get a public interest job than a biglaw job.

biglaw would allow me to break even within about 5 years, I believe. So it is very appealing. However, I'm not sure it makes sense to pay big for a shot (a fairly good one, out of Columbia, but still no guarantee) at a job there's a good chance I'll hate. and I think the average length of stay is only 2 or 3 years anyway.

[Count]

One of the things I like about this career path is that bitter, disillusioned lawyers are hilarious.

Hilarious up until the point that you join us.  After that the "joke" wears a bit thin.

Indeed - bitter, disillusioned lawyers are generally not much fun to have on the other side of a file. 

i don't know, i always thought being an alcoholic would be very romantic 

[Caliga]

If I ever decided I wanted to be a lawyer I'd want to have the easiest job with the least hours in the legal profession. 

Since that job probably doesn't pay well, then I'd also want to go to some cheapo offshore law school.