[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Malthus]

the gay community has excellent relations with the cops - quite a change I may add from when I was a kid, and the two were natural enemies - what with bathhouse raids etc. Which, interestingly, Toronto's Chief of Police publicly apologized for

Why should he apologize?  Weren't they merely enforcing the law?  The police don't write the laws, after all, but it's their job to enforce the laws that are on the books.

No - there was no actual specific law against being in a gay bath house. The places were raided, allegedly, because of complaints about underage sex in there. None was found. After that, the people found inside were charged with being in a bawdy house and/or engaging in prostitution: the law against "bawdyhouses" was equivocal and it was a big stretch to claim being in a gay bathhouse (where people had sex, but not for money) 'counted'.  No actual prostitution was ever proved. Many plead guilty nonetheless to avoid the publicity of a trial; those that went to trial, the charges were thrown out.

The widespread impression was that it was just harassment by the cops. This was a time when some substantial section of the cops were supposedly violently homophobic. Rumors abounded that some of the cops enjoyed gay-bashing - the (in)famous "Cherry Beach Express". This referred to a (then) very isolated area in the Port of Toronto where the cops would (allegedly) take gay men at night and beat them up, for fun.

Edit: in this harassment, the cops were by and large just expressing what the then-majority used to think: that gays were dangerous perverts who deserved to be harassed. Thing is, the times were rapidly changing: to the (no doubt) surprise of the cops, the public largely sympathized with the gays in the publicity following the raids; and the press likewise.

[dps]

the gay community has excellent relations with the cops - quite a change I may add from when I was a kid, and the two were natural enemies - what with bathhouse raids etc. Which, interestingly, Toronto's Chief of Police publicly apologized for

Why should he apologize?  Weren't they merely enforcing the law?  The police don't write the laws, after all, but it's their job to enforce the laws that are on the books.

Just use some basic googling. Toronto police did some fucked up shit (like many police did) back in the day.

Anyway, the police have always used discretion as to what crimes the track down. They don't have unlimited budgets so that can fully enforce everything.

Fair enough.

EDIT:  And yeah, based on what Malthus posted right before me, that was fucked up.  I was assuming that the raids were at a time when homosexuality was a crime in-and-of itself.

[Barrister]

the gay community has excellent relations with the cops - quite a change I may add from when I was a kid, and the two were natural enemies - what with bathhouse raids etc. Which, interestingly, Toronto's Chief of Police publicly apologized for

Why should he apologize?  Weren't they merely enforcing the law?  The police don't write the laws, after all, but it's their job to enforce the laws that are on the books.

Just use some basic googling. Toronto police did some fucked up shit (like many police did) back in the day.

Anyway, the police have always used discretion as to what crimes the track down. They don't have unlimited budgets so that can fully enforce everything.

Fair enough.

EDIT:  And yeah, based on what Malthus posted right before me, that was fucked up.  I was assuming that the raids were at a time when homosexuality was a crime in-and-of itself.

Nah, that was eliminated in the early 70s by Trudeau Sr. when he said "The state has no business in the bedrooms of the nation."

[Jacob]

You know this is something that bugs me about activists - they do something that is painfully and obviously wrong and justify it as "wanting to start a conversation".

I think we'd get a shorter list if you told us what did not bug you about activists than what bugged you

[Barrister]

You know this is something that bugs me about activists - they do something that is painfully and obviously wrong and justify it as "wanting to start a conversation".

I think we'd get a shorter list if you told us what did not bug you about activists than what bugged you

I like it when activists don't break the law, and when they respect the rights of others (like by not blocking people's movements, or shouting down people with opposing views).

[Malthus]

You know this is something that bugs me about activists - they do something that is painfully and obviously wrong and justify it as "wanting to start a conversation".

I think we'd get a shorter list if you told us what did not bug you about activists than what bugged you

He makes a fair point in this specific case though.

Demanding that cops remove their floats from the Pride Parade on the grounds their very presence makes the activists "uncomfortable" is a dumb move, bound to offend everyone to no purpose; to do so by interrupting the parade with an unannounced 'sit in' is first class attention whoring.

The impression given is that this group actively wants relations between police and this community to be worse than they are. 

[viper37]

more like the cops actually would keep us safe from cro-magnons about.

I thought there was a preference for muscular guys and lots of hair for most of you guys...?

[garbon]

more like the cops actually would keep us safe from cro-magnons about.

I thought there was a preference for muscular guys and lots of hair for most of you guys...?

Maybe that's a Quebec City thing?

[crazy canuck]

You know this is something that bugs me about activists - they do something that is painfully and obviously wrong and justify it as "wanting to start a conversation".

I think we'd get a shorter list if you told us what did not bug you about activists than what bugged you

I like it when activists don't break the law, and when they respect the rights of others (like by not blocking people's movements, or shouting down people with opposing views).

Ah, conservative activists 

[Valmy]

Activists are supposed to be hated and obnoxious. It is their job.

[Malthus]

Activists are supposed to be hated and obnoxious. It is their job.

Meh. In this particular cause and place, history is against that.

Gay activists in this city gained traction by mobilizing public support in the wake of the bathhouse raids, but they did it by stressing their right to normalicy, not by being hated. They did it again by pushing for gay marriage, successfully. Part of their strategy was very specifically to engage the cops and the civic authorities - hence having police floats in the Pride parade.

This in-your-face, we-hate-all-of-you style of activism doesn't play very well here, nor does it get real results. What it gets, is appeasement from leftish types - to a point - and then a growing acknowledgement that the activists are 'the problem', not a part of the solution. That's what you are seeing right now.

[Jacob]

Any Canadians here fancy being a Senator? Now there's an application process: http://ipolitics.ca/2016/07/07/government-completes-reform-of-senate-appointment-process/

[Valmy]

Any Canadians here fancy being a Senator? Now there's an application process: http://ipolitics.ca/2016/07/07/government-completes-reform-of-senate-appointment-process/

Do you have to move to Ottawa? Because that might be a deal-breaker for everybody on this board.

[Jacob]

Any Canadians here fancy being a Senator? Now there's an application process: http://ipolitics.ca/2016/07/07/government-completes-reform-of-senate-appointment-process/

Do you have to move to Ottawa? Because that might be a deal-breaker for everybody on this board.

No, I don't think so. You'll have to go there for business fairly frequently, though.

[Malthus]

Any Canadians here fancy being a Senator? Now there's an application process: http://ipolitics.ca/2016/07/07/government-completes-reform-of-senate-appointment-process/

Do you have to move to Ottawa? Because that might be a deal-breaker for everybody on this board.

Apparently, you can claim your "primary residence" is elsewhere for purposes of claiming living expenses ... 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Senate_expenses_scandal