[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Malthus]

It's an argument the Liberals are always going to face.

If they bring in 25,000 tomorrow, people would say "oh no, not vetting, terrororists in our midst. The end is nigh."

If they take a year it's all "ah, Liberals can't do what they promised. It was just an empty campaign propaganda...blah blah."

Because it was a stupid promise.  There was no way to do it without either slipping on doing a proper screening, or it would take longer than they said.

Yeah, I don't think it is unfair for the Libs to wear this one. They earned it, by making a promise they reasonably knew they could not keep. Not that it's likely to be a big deal, though - it may become one if it is part of a pattern of over-promising.

[Barrister]

So the Mayor of Montreal comes out against the Energy East pipeline, saying there aren't enough benefits for Montreal to justify its construction.  The benefits to Alberta and to New Brunswick?  Not his concern.

Opponents then question whether or not Quebec will give back any of the billions of dollars received in equalization - a lot of which is from Alberta.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-mayor-defends-energy-east-opposition-1.3415313

Trudeau doesn't need to say anything about this at this particular moment.  But what he really needs to do is re-assert that pipelines are a national concern and under the jurisdiction of the national government.  If we continue down this path that every single individual jurisdiction somehow gets a veto on trans-national projects we'll never build another pipeline ever again.

[Grey Fox]

That's his job, no? He's the mayor of Montreal. Not of Western Canada.

The thing to do is to not listen to his opinion on the matter.

[crazy canuck]

I am not sure why anyone is paying any attention to what a municipal politician thinks about pipelines.  It is just political theater.

@GF, if you think grandstanding is his job then yes.  And he will definitely be playing to his audience well.  But, as the various court cases here in BC where municipalities try to prevent construction of pipelines demonstrate, he is well outside his legal authority.

[Barrister]

That's his job, no? He's the mayor of Montreal. Not of Western Canada.

The thing to do is to not listen to his opinion on the matter.

Which is what I said Trudeau should do.  During the campaign however he was... equivocal on Energy East.

[viper37]

So the Mayor of Montreal comes out against the Energy East pipeline, saying there aren't enough benefits for Montreal to justify its construction.  The benefits to Alberta and to New Brunswick?  Not his concern.

Not enough benefits compared to risks.

Oil companies should be required to provide an insurance for environmental damages to the provincial governments, with an amount sufficient to cover the costs, if there's ever a spill.  That amound would be indexed once per 5 years, or something like that.

That would cut the grass under many opponents' feet.

[viper37]

Btw, any comments on that twitter harassment case?

[Malthus]

Btw, any comments on that twitter harassment case?

It would help if I knew about it ... 

[Barrister]

So the Mayor of Montreal comes out against the Energy East pipeline, saying there aren't enough benefits for Montreal to justify its construction.  The benefits to Alberta and to New Brunswick?  Not his concern.

Not enough benefits compared to risks.

Oil companies should be required to provide an insurance for environmental damages to the provincial governments, with an amount sufficient to cover the costs, if there's ever a spill.  That amound would be indexed once per 5 years, or something like that.

That would cut the grass under many opponents' feet.

Why aren't the existing laws on negligence sufficient?  It's not as if the pipeline company won't have to pay if there's an accident.

[viper37]

Btw, any comments on that twitter harassment case?

It would help if I knew about it ... 

In your own backyard and you know nothing!!!


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-man-found-not-guilty-in-twitter-harassment-trial-widely-viewed-as-a-canadian-first

[viper37]

So the Mayor of Montreal comes out against the Energy East pipeline, saying there aren't enough benefits for Montreal to justify its construction.  The benefits to Alberta and to New Brunswick?  Not his concern.

Not enough benefits compared to risks.

Oil companies should be required to provide an insurance for environmental damages to the provincial governments, with an amount sufficient to cover the costs, if there's ever a spill.  That amound would be indexed once per 5 years, or something like that.

That would cut the grass under many opponents' feet.

Why aren't the existing laws on negligence sufficient?  It's not as if the pipeline company won't have to pay if there's an accident.

Because of many situations:
a) company declares bankruptcy, assets are bought by someone else not responsible of liabilities, government foots the bill.  Happens in mines.
b) company A uses some sort of B shell corporation that only owns the pipeline, nothing else, no real assets to seize.  Happens with mines too.  Government foots the bill
c) company is unwilling to recognize damages, long and costly trial is necessary, government foots the bill until such time as it can get a meager compensation while lawyers get super rich.  See Lac Mégantic trainwreck.  Oil company hires a subsidiary of CP to transport oil, CP hires MM&A to transport it in Quebec, CP denies its responsibility, MM&A has like, zero assets to compensate.

Construction companies are forced to have insurances for any damages caused to the structures we build, the environment, the other structures neighbouring and we have to provide a finished product insurance for 5 years in many cases.  Yet, the client could simply sue us if there are problems, as it is in the law.

Insurance make things easier.  They pay, then they sue wichever corporation is found negligent.

[Malthus]

Btw, any comments on that twitter harassment case?

It would help if I knew about it ... 

In your own backyard and you know nothing!!!


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-man-found-not-guilty-in-twitter-harassment-trial-widely-viewed-as-a-canadian-first

I ain't reading an 85-page ruling to comment on it. 

From a very brief review: looks like the judge thought this was basically a flame war, without a reasonable fear of anyone's actual safety: so no criminal harassment. You don't get to call something harassment and make it so. They have to actually threaten you. 

[Barrister]

Btw, any comments on that twitter harassment case?

It would help if I knew about it ... 

In your own backyard and you know nothing!!!


http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto-man-found-not-guilty-in-twitter-harassment-trial-widely-viewed-as-a-canadian-first

I ain't reading an 85-page ruling to comment on it. 

From a very brief review: looks like the judge thought this was basically a flame war, without a reasonable fear of anyone's actual safety: so no criminal harassment. You don't get to call something harassment and make it so. They have to actually threaten you.

Well not quite.    If you actually threaten someone you can be charged with Utter Threats, s. 264.1.  Criminal Harassment, s. 264, is to "engage in conduct... that causes that other person... to fear for their safety".

[Barrister]

So, I was in a pre-trial conference getting my head chewed off y the judge.  Just another day in paradise I suppose.

But the interesting part is I'm chatting with the defence lawyer afterwards, and he starts talking about this Syrian family that's he's a part of a group that sponsored them over here.  It's a bunch of defence lawyers that have done this (and super good on them ).

He doesn't regret doing it - says there are some super-rewarding parts to it.  But, perhaps surprising, perhaps not, these families have got a ton of issues to deal with.  I think he's working with two single moms - sisters.  One of the husbands was killed by government troops, one was tortured, killed, and the body dumped on the front porch by rebel troops.  He said the kids must have PTSD because they'll take them out to a rec centre, everything is going great, but then one kid flips out and starts assaulting their cousin.

He said he's spending 6-8 hours every two to three days with these families.  This is a private sponsorship, but he worries about the government sponsored refugees, because they get a hotel for a few months, $1300 / month and that's about it.  Meanwhile nobody speaks english.

His point of view was the government needs to ensure there are proper resources before bringing in tons more refugees.  Not that he's opposed to refugees coming to Canada, but his comment is that we had all these Somali families come over 15-20 years ago, and now Somalis are vastly over-represented in our courts.  If we don't take steps to deal with the serious issues these Syrians have, we could see the same thing down the road.

Anyways, I don't mean this in a political context, as it wasn't told to me in that way - this is just the thread where we had discussed Syrian refugees in Canada.

[Jacob]

Yeah, those are legitimate concerns for sure. I imagine it'd be challenging to get those kinds of resources through the political process though.