[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Valmy]

And by next year, he or someone else will tell us it's not enough.

I can tell you right now. It is not enough. It is not fucking enough.

Still more than us. Sadly.

[crazy canuck]

And by next year, he or someone else will tell us it's not enough.

I can tell you right now. It is not enough. It is not fucking enough.

[crazy canuck]

An opinion piece in the Globe about drug policy that is well worth reading



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-debate/time-for-a-clear-eyed-look-at-drug-policy/article27218886/

[viper37]

problem solved then, let's legalize everything, everywhere

I got to say, I love the bias in the journalist report, the silly (I would say dishonest, but I'll remain polite )use of statistics to support her point:

It is a pretty easy argument to make. The Canadian Centre for Substance Abuse estimates the public cost of alcohol-related harm in this country to be just less than $15-billion a year, including $3-billion or so in law-enforcement costs. One-third or more of inmates in Canadian prisons for murder, assault or sexual assault say they drank the day they committed their crime (compared with 3 per cent of sexual-assault offenders who say they used illicit drugs). As well, alcohol is a known carcinogen.

Something legally accessible, relatively cheap to buy, consumed by near everybody in the country is more likely to be consumed by criminals.  Wow.  What a fucking moronic argument.  I can also tell you that there are more people not committing any crimes more likely to have dranked alcool the day they did not commit a crime than smoking pot or using another kind of drug the same day they did not commit a crime.

What I do like though, is that while alcool is legal, we still incur 3billion$ a year for law enforcement while if we were to legalize marijuana, those costs would be 0$ (or very close to) since it would not be in the hands of criminals anymore.  That is totally logical, if only you don't think about it.

[Barrister]

Report: Stating Current Year Still Leading Argument For Social Reform

NEWS IN BRIEF
February 17, 2014
VOL 50 ISSUE 07   
News · Civil Rights
WASHINGTON—According to a report released Monday by the Brookings Institution, the single most effective argument in favor of social reform continues to be indignantly saying aloud what the current year is. "When it comes to making a case for reordering the social order, we've failed to find any rhetorical strategy more effective or compelling than saying 'It's 2014!' and asking why societal change hasn't occurred," said policy analyst Brad Katz, adding that the argument was even more powerful when immediately followed with the phrases "I mean, come on!" or "for crying out loud!" "Furthermore, we found that all social progress throughout our history—including abolition, women's suffrage, and the entire gay rights movement—can be credited to stating the current year, claiming you don't know what year defenders of the status quo are living in, and reminding them that if they happened to look at a calendar, they would notice that the year you stated is the current year." However, the report noted that Americans have recently seen a sharp decline in the effectiveness of stating what country this is.

http://www.theonion.com/article/report-stating-current-year-still-leading-argument-35288

[crazy canuck]

problem solved then, let's legalize everything, everywhere

I got to say, I love the bias in the journalist report, the silly (I would say dishonest, but I'll remain polite )use of statistics to support her point:

It is a pretty easy argument to make. The Canadian Centre for Substance Abuse estimates the public cost of alcohol-related harm in this country to be just less than $15-billion a year, including $3-billion or so in law-enforcement costs. One-third or more of inmates in Canadian prisons for murder, assault or sexual assault say they drank the day they committed their crime (compared with 3 per cent of sexual-assault offenders who say they used illicit drugs). As well, alcohol is a known carcinogen.

Something legally accessible, relatively cheap to buy, consumed by near everybody in the country is more likely to be consumed by criminals.  Wow.  What a fucking moronic argument.  I can also tell you that there are more people not committing any crimes more likely to have dranked alcool the day they did not commit a crime than smoking pot or using another kind of drug the same day they did not commit a crime.

What I do like though, is that while alcool is legal, we still incur 3billion$ a year for law enforcement while if we were to legalize marijuana, those costs would be 0$ (or very close to) since it would not be in the hands of criminals anymore.  That is totally logical, if only you don't think about it.

You understand that a large percentage of the population already uses pot right?

[viper37]

You understand that a large percentage of the population already uses pot right?

http://www.med.uottawa.ca/sim/data/Marijuana_e.htm
Estimated number of marijuana users in Canada:  2.3 million 
10% of regular users develop dependency

And (last column = 2011)
Cannabis Use
Cannabis - lifetime    44.5    43.9    42.4    41.5    39.4
Cannabis - past-year    14.1    11.4    10.6    10.7    9.1

Alcohol use
Lifetime Use    92.8    90.2    88.6    88.9    89.7
Past 12 month Use    79.3    77.3    76.5    77.0    78.0
http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hc-ps/drugs-drogues/stat/_2011/summary-sommaire-eng.php

So, we got 10% of the population using cannabis on a regular basis vs 78% of the population using alcohol on a regular basis.
The probability that you would find a random individual in Canada that uses pot is much, much less than the probability of finding a Canadian who drinks.

I could also tell you, using the same kind of statistics, that the majority of North Americans who commit violent crimes are english speakers.  Therefore, speaking english is more likely to cause an individual to commit a violent crime. 

[crazy canuck]

What those stats tell us that is that alcohol use is much more problematic than pot use 

In relation to the percentage of users it is not particularly helpful since its detailed age group break down is 15-24 and 25+.  The 25+ category really brings down the rate.  It would be more interesting to see the rate for people 25-50 or 60.

[Valmy]

What those stats tell us that is that alcohol use is much more problematic than pot use 

Well yeah. Drinking things is pleasant while smoking things is gross.

[Josephus]

I imagine that the two are not mutually exclusive.

I'd say almost all the smokers drink

[crazy canuck]

I imagine that the two are not mutually exclusive.

I'd say almost all the smokers drink

Sure.  Almost everyone has had a drink.  Not an entirely helpful stat. 

[viper37]

What those stats tell us that is that alcohol use is much more problematic than pot use 

Well yeah. Drinking things is pleasant while smoking things is gross.

yes.  And there's no such thing as second hand drinking. 

[viper37]

What those stats tell us that is that alcohol use is much more problematic than pot use 

never heard of a casual drinker developping psychosis.  You need to drink *a lot*, a fucking lot for many days to see pink elephants in the room.

[garbon]

What those stats tell us that is that alcohol use is much more problematic than pot use 

never heard of a casual drinker developping psychosis.  You need to drink *a lot*, a fucking lot for many days to see pink elephants in the room.

I'm not sure why your ignorance should be given much weight as an argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance-induced_psychosis

Alcohol is a common cause of psychotic disorders or episodes, which may occur through acute intoxication, chronic alcoholism, withdrawal, exacerbation of existing disorders, or acute idiosyncratic reactions. Research has shown that alcohol abuse causes an 8-fold increased risk of psychotic disorders in men and a 3 fold increased risk of psychotic disorders in women. While the vast majority of cases are acute and resolve fairly quickly upon treatment and/or abstinence, they can occasionally become chronic and persistent. Alcoholic psychosis is sometimes misdiagnosed as another mental illness such as schizophrenia.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289848-overview#a6

Frequency
United States

Roughly 3% of persons with alcoholism experience psychosis during acute intoxication or withdrawal. Approximately 10% of patients who are dependent on alcohol and are in withdrawal experience severe withdrawal symptomatology, including psychosis. Twins studies have shown concordance rates for alcohol-related psychosis to be 17.3% in monozygotic twins and 4.8% in dizygotictwins.

Those with first-episode psychosis are twice more likely than the general population to present with comorbid substance abuse and are more commonly males than females. The most commonly reported substance is cannabis (51%) followed by alcohol (43%)

[HVC]

What those stats tell us that is that alcohol use is much more problematic than pot use 

Well yeah. Drinking things is pleasant while smoking things is gross.

yes.  And there's no such thing as second hand drinking. 

unless you count violence and car accidents