[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Josephus]

Toronto Star officially endorses Trudeau

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2015/10/09/for-justin-trudeau-and-the-liberal-party-editorial.html

[Monoriu]

I am amazed that Canadians care about the speed of processing immigration visas of Syrians.  That should be priority number #324787239 for you guys.  Shouldn't you be thinking about things like taxes, Quebec, pipelines and such? 

Mono, a simple question: what are taxes used for?

if the bureaucracy isn't quick to handle things and requires twice the work, who do you think ends up paying for this?

Not sure what your question is.  Taxes aren't just used to pay the bureaucracy ( x 100).  A lot of taxes are redistributed and released as cash. 

Besides, our experience has shown that cutting civil service pay does not result in lower efficiency 

[crazy canuck]

Jacob

[Barrister]

Nice to see Jacob back.

But yeah - not at all surprised he slammed Harper.

Don't worry Jacob - I'm sure you'll be disappointed yet again in Canadian voters.

[viper37]

So way back when, maybe it was the last election, I mentioned my disquiet with Harper. The phrase "hidden agenda" was thrown around - I don't remember if I used it first or if someone attached it to what I was saying as a technique for dismissing it. In any case, it was a subtopic for a few days or weeks and, as I recall it, the idea that Harper somehow had a "hidden agenda" was roundly ridiculed.

Today, however, there are plenty of things in Harper's legacy that lines up pretty solidly with what I was worried about back then, including:

- the poisonous wedge politics of the manufactured niqab issue and the attempt to set "old stock" Canadians against the old
- the damage Harper has done to Canadian scientific infrastructure through defunding and overt political interference
- the way he's undermined our national statistics collection
- the dismantling he's effecting on the CBC
- the games he's played with women's health and advocacy
- the removal of significant swathes of environmental protection
- the sheer indifference he's displayed to Native issues

... those things add up and pretty much align with what I was concerned about when we had those discussions back then. Maybe the agenda wasn't hidden, but the results are still shit as far as I am concerned even if I couldn't articulate them before he enacted these and other policies.

On top of that, I'm not particularly impressed with how he's handled veterans affairs either, and I wonder how a country coming out of a resource boom does not have a sovereign wealth fund.

Probably not a surprise to anyone here. Of course, I live in a riding that has consistently returned a CCF or NDP candidate since its inception, with only two short exceptions in 74-79 and 93-97.

the hidden agenda referred specifically to the usual 'c'onservatives agenda:
- finding a way to make gay marriage illegal
- finding a way to make abortion illegal
- finding a way to base policies on religion
- finding a way to make religious organization more powerful

On that, only #3, partially, and maybe you could argue for a tiny little part of #4 has been true.
It is enough to worry me, not enough to deter my vote because I have no credible alternative.
My alternative is to not vote, and that means a vote for the NDP, so I'm not doing it.
Besides, the Cons have had the courtesy of using live people to call me, not automated robo-call like the NDP.

As for your list, well, the environment part was certainly not part of the hidden agenda, as it was pretty clear they would not accept Kyoto.  It was a dumb move, like many others.  But the Libs and the NDP also made dumb promises, and each have their own hidden agenda.  Both other parties cheated with public funds to finance their political activities, and that is, imho, ground enough to reject them.

If it wasn't for Duceppe, I might vote Bloc.  But no way I'm voting for a commie, even if he nows half make sense.  I can't trust that guy anymore than Mulcair the liar or Trudeau the empty shell to effectively represent me.

[viper37]

Toronto Star officially endorses Trudeau

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/2015/10/09/for-justin-trudeau-and-the-liberal-party-editorial.html

La Presse did it first.  Their editorial was a copy/paste of the PLC's program, it's like they had a close copy nearby.  Probably not that difficult to have, given who wrote it.

[viper37]

Not sure what your question is.  Taxes aren't just used to pay the bureaucracy ( x 100).  A lot of taxes are redistributed and released as cash.

Ok, so I pay 100$ in taxes, and magically, 90$ of it goes to poor people?  Hmm... not so sure

Besides, our experience has shown that cutting civil service pay does not result in lower efficiency 

It result in more corruption, usually.  But that's just normal business in China, I guess

I personnaly prefer less & better paid people.

[viper37]

Don't worry Jacob - I'm sure you'll be disappointed yet again in Canadian voters.

I still have my doubts about a Conservative victory, even a minority government led by the Cons.
At this point I am not pronouncing a victory for the NDP or the Libs though.  I can only imagine a future without the Bloc Québécois or the Green Party in power

But if the Cons do win, even a minority gov, I will buy you a beer.  If you visit my hometown.

[PRC]

I kinda agree. I think it went too far. Again, it shows that many people still vote mostly with emotions (which is bad imo).

Super curious which way your vote is leaning Rex?

[Rex Francorum]

I kinda agree. I think it went too far. Again, it shows that many people still vote mostly with emotions (which is bad imo).

Super curious which way your vote is leaning Rex?

Will void my vote. I know, it may looks dogmatic but, as an independantist, I cannot vote for any federal(ist_) party. But if I would vote, I would probably lean toward NDP. I don't like the conservative bias of the Conservatives (duh) and the centralization tradition within the Liberal Pary. Surely, the NDP was eager to intervene in provincial jurisdictions but, since they never ran the government, I cannot hold it as much against them on that issue.

[crazy canuck]

Not surprisingly the cynical vilification of the other by the conservatives has provoked a response from academics who would not consider themselves left wing.  I wonder how many voters are like me and were heavily influenced by this issue.  I hope it is studied after the election.

https://news.vice.com/article/canadian-academics-accuse-harper-campaign-of-vicious-propaganda

[Monoriu]

If I were living in Canada, presumably I have a shot at making the list of barbarians 

It is fine.  I don't consider that the Conservatives have crossed a line that cannot be crossed.  I don't think they are really targeting Chinese immigrants anyway.

I'd like to point out that it is very heartwarming for non-immigrant Canadians to defend the rights of immigrants when it really isn't their battle though.  Can't believe they are really doing that sort of thing.  Some Canadians can be so cute 

[crazy canuck]

To clarify I care very little for people who have gamed our immigration system to obtain passports of convenience.  I do care a great deal for people who wish to live in Canada and make this country their home.  What I think the Conservatives have missed is that Canadians have a strong connection with their individual cultural roots. I still have the steamer trunk my great-grandfather used when he came to Canada, as an example. The Conservatives have chosen to single out one particular cultural group in order to regulate their conduct.  We have seen this sort of shameful conduct before in this Country.  I would not want it repeated.  And I suspect that most Canadians would also object if they reflected on the fact that at one point in our history, chances are, a part of their own cultural history was the other.

[Josephus]

Well said.

[Monoriu]

To clarify I care very little for people who have gamed our immigration system to obtain passports of convenience.