[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Jacob]

So... are you advocating that I use political violence to create a more orderly, fairer world?

I thought you were advocating Neilism?

[Admiral Yi]

But what if we follow the Swedish model? It's all about protecting vulnerable women, but without legitimizing prostitution.

Not an electoral winner.  You gain the feminazi vote and you lose the horny dude and attractive chick wanting to make easy money votes.

[Neil]

So... are you advocating that I use political violence to create a more orderly, fairer world?

I thought you were advocating Neilism?

Neilism is order and fairness.

[Jacob]

But what if we follow the Swedish model? It's all about protecting vulnerable women, but without legitimizing prostitution.

Not an electoral winner.  You gain the feminazi vote and you lose the horny dude and attractive chick wanting to make easy money votes.

You think there are a lot of women who vote based on pro-legalized-prostitution positions because they personally want to turn tricks?

[crazy canuck]

But what if we follow the Swedish model? It's all about protecting vulnerable women, but without legitimizing prostitution.

That is a possibility but their laws cannot be enacted in isolation.  We would also have to adopt all the other measures they have that protect disadvantaged women.

[Neil]

I'm hearing reports that a Toronto NDP MP is under house arrest being on a factfinding mission in Sri Lanka.

How long before Harper is blamed?

[crazy canuck]

Sounds like a publicity stunt by the Tamils.


As for blaming Harper - he did what the NDP wanted on this issue.

Foreign Affairs spokesman John Babcock said in an e-mail Wednesday that Sri Lankan officials have confirmed that reports the Toronto-area MP was under house arrest are false.

Mr. Babcock says officials at the Canadian High Commission in Colombo have spoken with the MP, who was on a private visit to Sri Lanka, and she has confirmed her well-being to them.

But officials in NDP Leader Tom Mulcair's office could not immediately confirm when Sitsabaiesan, who was born in Sri Lanka, was going to leave the country.

A memo from Mr. Mulcair's chief of staff Raoul Gebert to New Democrat MPs says the Opposition Leader personally raised the issue with Sri Lanka's ambassador to Canada, but it remained unclear whether Ms. Sitsabaiesan was ever under house arrest.

"There have been many reports about her being under house arrest. I can tell you that these reports are unconfirmed but there is no question that the Sri Lankan government is unhappy about her trip to Sri Lanka," Mr. Gebert wrote in an e-mail obtained by The Canadian Press.

The Columbo Gazette, which carried a story on its website stating Ms. Sitsabaiesan was under house arrest, updated its story on Monday to include denials from police, immigration officials and the Sri Lankan army.

A Tamil website, TamilNet, posted an article on Tuesday night that Ms. Sitsabaiesan was being confined to her hotel and that authorities had stationed officers at her hotel to prevent anyone from meeting the MP.

The Columbo Gazette story posted Wednesday included a denial that officers had surrounded her hotel on Tuesday.

Ms. Sitsabaiesan, 32, came to Canada with her family at the age of five and was elected to the House of Commons in 2011 in the Toronto-area riding of Scarborough-Rouge River.

She took on a prominent role in New Democrat efforts to urge Prime Minister Stephen Harper to boycott a meeting of Commonwealth leaders that was held in Sri Lanka in November.

Mr. Harper had indicated he was giving the meeting a pass in protest of the Sri Lankan government's human rights record.

The New Democrats and others have called for the Asian country's government to submit to an investigation into alleged war crimes during the country's lengthy civil war.

[viper37]

York University professor who refused student's request to be separated from female classmates broke 'obligation to accommodate': officials

This teacher was one step from opening a concentration camp

After refusing to honour a male student's request to be separated from his female classmates for religious reasons, a York University professor has found himself at odds with administrators who assert he broke their "obligation to accommodate."

"It represents a great leap backwards," said sociology professor J. Paul Grayson. "When I was a student, you couldn't have gotten away with that — it wouldn't even have been considered."

The issue arose last September in the opening days of SOCI 2030, an online course taught by Mr. Grayson.

A student, who remains nameless due to privacy reasons, asked to be counted out of a scheduled group project due to the course's heavy preponderance of female students.

"One of the main reasons that I have chosen internet courses to complete my BA is due to my firm religious beliefs, and part of that is the intermingling between men and women," he wrote, adding "it will not be possible for me to meet in public with a group of women (the majority of my group) to complete some of these tasks."
[...]

As per documents provided by the professor, one of the keystones of the Dean's position is the assertion that allowing the student to opt out of female interaction would not affect the "experience of other students in the class"—provided the professor kept quiet about it.

Thankfully, the Ontarian government was very clear last fall that they will not tolerate this kind of behavior and this teacher should be fired immediatly.  Such attack on Canadian multicultiralism must not be tolerated.  This is as bad as the situation is in Quebec, and we all know Canadians aren't like that.  I'm sure CC & the others will agree the teacher was being entirely unreasonable and the Dean's position is the way to go.

Fear of offending is sapping universities of common sense

I'm always at the double standards of Canadian journalism   Do something in Quebec: "You're as bad as the nazis".  Ontario does the same?  "Common sense", it's called.

[Barrister]

Here's an alternative version of the story:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/york-university-student-s-request-not-to-work-with-women-stirs-controversy-1.2490514

And the money paragaph:

The university issued a statement saying it is committed to respecting religious beliefs, but said the case was "complicated by the fact that it was an online course where alternative arrangements were put in place to accommodate students who were unavailable to attend classes on campus."

Normally I'd agree - if group work is included as part of the course, then the student better well do the group work.

But this is an online course, and provisions were already made for students who could not attend in person.  So what possible harm is there in allowing this student to take advantage of the existing alternative provision?

[Jacob]

I'm not sure I follow, Viper... in Ontario, a teacher is getting into trouble for not accommodating what a student claim his religion requires from him. And you consider that to be the same as the situation in Quebec where the government mandates that teachers must not accommodate even simple religious requirements?

I'm sure there's something to your general point that reporting on these issues are biased, but it seems to me that in this case you're claiming two things are the same when they're pretty much exactly opposite.

[viper37]

Here's an alternative version of the story:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/york-university-student-s-request-not-to-work-with-women-stirs-controversy-1.2490514

And the money paragaph:

The university issued a statement saying it is committed to respecting religious beliefs, but said the case was "complicated by the fact that it was an online course where alternative arrangements were put in place to accommodate students who were unavailable to attend classes on campus."

Normally I'd agree - if group work is included as part of the course, then the student better well do the group work.

But this is an online course, and provisions were already made for students who could not attend in person.  So what possible harm is there in allowing this student to take advantage of the existing alternative provision?

Online courses are not exempt of group work, I know that for a fact.  As the teacher said, if he refused to work with blacks for religious reasons, would we accomodate him?

[viper37]

I'm not sure I follow, Viper... in Ontario, a teacher is getting into trouble for not accommodating what a student claim his religion requires from him. And you consider that to be the same as the situation in Quebec where the government mandates that teachers must not accommodate even simple religious requirements?

I was being ironic.

Clearly, this is the kind of situation I was talking about in the earlier debates, a situation that should never have happened.  Make a ridiculous request based on religion, get denied.  He could have ask to take the exam one day before everyone else because it is a religious holyday for him, he should get the same treatment as everyone else: no.

And these policies should be defined at state level so that all personal knows how to react when such situation occurs.  In this case, you got the teacher even wondering if he should do it, making his own research by interviewing rabbis and imams, consulting other teachers... Would he have done that if the request came from a canadian born citizen with no religion?  No.
It was a waste of time for the teacher to have done that.  The proper would be to declare that there will be no exemption to class regulations based on religion, end of story.

And to have the Dean intervene for such a trivial matter - would the Dean otherwise intervene in such a matter? - was ridiculous.  Don't Dean have more serious things to do?

I'm sure there's something to your general point that reporting on these issues are biased, but it seems to me that in this case you're claiming two things are the same when they're pretty much exactly opposite.

As I said, it was irony.  I agree with the teacher's position.  The other canadians though, should logically agree with the Dean.

[Malthus]

Does no-one else find it slightly odd that this took place at York university ... in the sociology department? 

[viper37]

Does no-one else find it slightly odd that this took place at York university ... in the sociology department? 

you mean it's a false case to spur public debate on the subject?  I've no idea what is "York university", what kind of institution that is, so no, I didn't find it odd.  The story though, rings a bell, as I'm sure I've heard such a thing before.

[Malthus]

Does no-one else find it slightly odd that this took place at York university ... in the sociology department? 

you mean it's a false case to spur public debate on the subject?  I've no idea what is "York university", what kind of institution that is, so no, I didn't find it odd.  The story though, rings a bell, as I'm sure I've heard such a thing before.

I have no real idea about this story other than what I read here, but York is a university famously filled with sensationalist left-leaning flakes, and sociology ... well, that speaks for itself. 

It is also odd that the prof evidently doesn't know what religion the student is. Most really religious folks leave you in no doubt, particularly where they are asking for some sort of religious-based accomodation.

Also strange is that the student, having made a fuss in the first place, allegely cheerfully accepted the prof's decision. I guess his "religious objections" weren't all that fundamental after all.