[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

How fuck are how cheese producers?

The small ones won't see any effects.  Our fine cheeses are already as good as any european ones. 

Agreed

[viper37]

Not sure if you are trolling or if you are really that uninformed.  The notwithstanding clause relates to the Federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  The Human Rights Commission is a Provincial body which derives its authority entirely from Provincial legislation enacted by the Province of Quebec.  This is essentially Quebec telling itself what we have been telling you all along.

I've heard/read about using the notwithstanding clause somewhere in the news, but I'll admit I have no idea in what context it would be used. I'm trying to find the source, but can't for now.  Maybe there is something similar for the government of Quebec vis-à-vis its own charter, I really don't know.

[crazy canuck]

Not sure if you are trolling or if you are really that uninformed.  The notwithstanding clause relates to the Federal Charter of Rights and Freedoms.  The Human Rights Commission is a Provincial body which derives its authority entirely from Provincial legislation enacted by the Province of Quebec.  This is essentially Quebec telling itself what we have been telling you all along.

I've heard/read about using the notwithstanding clause somewhere in the news, but I'll admit I have no idea in what context it would be used. I'm trying to find the source, but can't for now.  Maybe there is something similar for the government of Quebec vis-à-vis its own charter, I really don't know.

That doesnt make much sense to me.  If a Provincial government doesnt like its own human rights leglislation it can simply be amended.  The matter is entirely within Provincial jurisdiction.  That is why each province has its own human rights code and human rights legislation.

[Grallon]

I've heard/read about using the notwithstanding clause somewhere in the news, but I'll admit I have no idea in what context it would be used. I'm trying to find the source, but can't for now.  Maybe there is something similar for the government of Quebec vis-à-vis its own charter, I really don't know.

Yes the Commision is an adjunct of the Qc gvt - and it oversees the Quebec charter of rights - however the opinion expressed here is based on a strict interpretation of the Canadian charter which supersedes the Quebec one and would ultimately be invoked to challenge the current proposal in court - hence my reference to the use of the notwistanding clause...  Besides, several prominent jurists have already validated the project.  The opinion of the Commission is just that - an opinion.  However it gives credence to the opponents of the Value Charter.  The minister piloting the proposal has already dismissed their opinion as irrelevant.


I want immigrants that integrates.  And I want no more of the Muslim vermin - wherever they come from.



G.

[crazy canuck]

Besides, several prominent jurists have already validated the project. 

Care to share a link.  That would be interesting reading.

[Grallon]

Besides, several prominent jurists have already validated the project. 

Care to share a link.  That would be interesting reading.

Here's one:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/24/parti-quebecois-religion-plan-gets-support-from-retired-supreme-court-judge/

[crazy canuck]

Besides, several prominent jurists have already validated the project. 

Care to share a link.  That would be interesting reading.

Here's one:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/09/24/parti-quebecois-religion-plan-gets-support-from-retired-supreme-court-judge/

I thought you were going to link something in which a prominant jurist "validated the project".  Instead I get a third hand article in which a reporter says that a group said that a prominent jurist supports them.

If you can find a piece actually written by a prominant jurist which supports the Quebec Charter in its current proposed form I would be very interested to read how they argue their point. 

[Grey Fox]

How fuck are how cheese producers?

The small ones won't see any effects.  Our fine cheeses are already as good as any european ones. 

Agreed

but they are, and will be even more, very expensive cheeses. My uncle owns a Cheese importer/retailer. French Camembert 3-5$/kg, Quebec Camember 30+$/kg

[crazy canuck]

GF, sounds to me like you have a significant problem with provincial taxation levels.

[viper37]

Yes the Commision is an adjunct of the Qc gvt - and it oversees the Quebec charter of rights - however the opinion expressed here is based on a strict interpretation of the Canadian charter which supersedes the Quebec one and would ultimately be invoked to challenge the current proposal in court - hence my reference to the use of the notwistanding clause... 

The Quebec charter is the same as the Canadian one, when it comes to religion.  If it fails one charter on this ground, it will fail both.  From a legal standpoint, and the lawyers of the forum will correct me, it makes more sense to challenge while first invoking the Canadian charter, and if the gov use the notwithstanding clause, then challenge with the provincial charter.

Besides, several prominent jurists have already validated the project.

Oh, really?  Wich ones?  Even the Minister of Justice is staying silent on this.

The minister piloting the proposal has already dismissed their opinion as irrelevant.

Of course he did.  Anything not pro-PQ is bad.  Evil bad.  We've been there before, it's only gotten worst with Marois.

I want immigrants that integrates.  And I want no more of the Muslim vermin - wherever they come from.

Then wich ones do you want?  The Chinese?  3/4 of them move them move to Ontario after they have their citizenship.  Something about being easier to use the language you already know than learning a new one...
Ok, let's go to another group, non-muslim.  Germans&Austrians?  Good people, I'm sure, but they face the same problems as other Europeans: they have higher wages than us.  Also, most Germans learn English as a second language, not French.  Same goes for Austrians I guess.
Latin Americans.  You like Latin Americans?  Devout Catholics, should be good here, no?  They are against abortion, against gay marriage, and some of the priests are crazy enough to excommunicate 9 year old girls after they get an abortigon, following a rape.
I'm not sure how it is better to you than "muslim vermin", it seems all religions can lead to excess, and I don't see ultra-catholics as different than fanatic muslims.  And I'm not sure there's more, percentage wise, fanatics in islamic people than there are with christians.

So, let's say we forget about these things that goes contrary to our values.  Well, they don't often speak french, they have to learn it.  Just too bad, our government decided you need to know French before you emigrate.

So, really, who's left?  We want them to speak French before they come here, we don't want them to be practicing muslim -well, you don't want them at all, we're too poor to attact Europeans with higher standard of living, what's left?  Haitians?  You'll react better with black ultra-Catholics voodoo believers than secular muslims?

Or do we allow non french immigration?  Or do we simply let nature follow its course, and see our population diminish because we don't make enough babies?  Our economy will take a hit, qualified people are already hard to get, with your proposals, it's only going to be worst.  And Quebec won't be in any better shape to defend itself against Canada, independant or not.

[viper37]

but they are, and will be even more, very expensive cheeses. My uncle owns a Cheese importer/retailer. French Camembert 3-5$/kg, Quebec Camember 30+$/kg

Not all cheese are created equal.  If your uncle's Camembert is so costly compared to European ones, he'll have to find ways to:
a) differentiate his product (insist on quality, have a unique taste, etc)
b) lower his costs

For b), it will need some serious talk with our milk producers.  The whole quota and fixed price system simply doesn't work.  Construction costs are higher for small businesses here than it is in Canada.  As for milk producers, we need to get bigger farms, but our construction laws would make it unprofitable for them to grow mid-size, as their construction costs goes 3x once they need more than 3 people to run the farm.

Maybe it's time we face these issues dead on instead of blaming everyone else?  Canadians didn't put the FTQ in charge of our economy, you know, we did that ourself. 

[garbon]

And Quebec won't be in any better shape to defend itself against Canada, independant or not.

Is Canada battling Quebec?

[Grey Fox]

GF, sounds to me like you have a significant problem with provincial taxation levels.

Nah, we have a problem with fixed minimum milk prices.

[crazy canuck]

To add another topic of debate.

If there was ever a question in my mind that the triple E Senate idea was a bad idea, the recent American experience removes all doubt from my mind.  There is no reason why we should follow the American example and create a system designed to fail.

Also given our recent experience of corruption within our own Senate I think it is time to abolish it.  The Senate serves no purpose that a properly constituted Parliamentary committee could not perform.  Granted the issue of the Constitutional Amendment would create huge headaches.

[Grey Fox]

but they are, and will be even more, very expensive cheeses. My uncle owns a Cheese importer/retailer. French Camembert 3-5$/kg, Quebec Camember 30+$/kg

Not all cheese are created equal.  If your uncle's Camembert is so costly compared to European ones, he'll have to find ways to:
a) differentiate his product (insist on quality, have a unique taste, etc)
b) lower his costs

For b), it will need some serious talk with our milk producers.  The whole quota and fixed price system simply doesn't work.  Construction costs are higher for small businesses here than it is in Canada.  As for milk producers, we need to get bigger farms, but our construction laws would make it unprofitable for them to grow mid-size, as their construction costs goes 3x once they need more than 3 people to run the farm.

Maybe it's time we face these issues dead on instead of blaming everyone else?  Canadians didn't put the FTQ in charge of our economy, you know, we did that ourself.

My uncle is a retailer, not a producer.

I don't like it but I agree with you. Especially since the FTQ is just an arm of the Bonano clan apparently.