[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

This is how the conversation looks from my perspective:

Government: "We saved a bunch of money!"
Jacob & Viper: "Cool! How did you save it?"
CC: "Shut up! Just be happy that we saved it."
Jacob & Viper: "All we want to know how it was saved..."
CC: "Typical daft leftists and super-nationalist Quebeckers, you don't understand government spending and fiscal management!"

Your perspective sucks

Typical lefties idiots and Quegbec sponges upset that government may have not spent money they didnt have to.

Again what bit about no project going without funding and not spending stimulus money because it was not needed is so fucking hard to understand?

[Neil]

This is how the conversation looks from my perspective:

Government: "We saved a bunch of money!"
Jacob & Viper: "Cool! How did you save it?"
CC: "Shut up! Just be happy that we saved it."
Jacob & Viper: "All we want to know how it was saved..."
CC: "Typical daft leftists and super-nationalist Quebeckers, you don't understand government spending and fiscal management!"

The problem is that the Jacobs and Vipers are dedicated to the destruction of the current government and the suppression of everything that it believes in.  It's only natural that the government would be somewhat guarded in sharing information with them, right?

[viper37]

Again what bit about no project going without funding and not spending stimulus money because it was not needed is so fucking hard to understand?

You still have not answered my question: Wich provinces deserve money, wich does not deserve money.  You said Quebec did not deserve money.  I want to know if it's just Quebec, or if there are others like us.

As for the understanding part, you perfectly demonstrate why people hate lawyers: you like to ask questions, but you don't want to provide any answers.

So, again, wich provinces deserved the money, wich did not?  Apparently, you even know that some projects were not needed and that's the reason why the money was left unspent.  Cool!  Now, give us the list that you have seen where it shows what you are saying.

[viper37]

The problem is that the Jacobs and Vipers are dedicated to the destruction of the current government and the suppression of everything that it believes in.  It's only natural that the government would be somewhat guarded in sharing information with them, right?

Ah, so you are now saying that the government does not share the information.  But then, where did CC got his info that some provinces deserved the money and some did not?  Where did he get his info that some projects were not needed?

[Jacob]

Your perspective sucks

Typical lefties idiots and Quegbec sponges upset that government may have not spent money they didnt have to.

Again what bit about no project going without funding and not spending stimulus money because it was not needed is so fucking hard to understand?

The part where apparently they thought they needed 30% money when they budgeted than when they actually spent it. It's not that projects were underfunded or cut apparently, which is good. Is it that that 30% extra money was allocated to contingency overruns and those contingencies never happened? Did a whole bunch of projects and initiatives come in under budget (and if so, which were the most noteworthy ones)?

The money wasn't needed. Great. Got it.

What was the money thought to be needed for when it was budgeted? What happened that it wasn't needed? That's what's so fucking hard to understand; not because, I expect, there aren't perfectly good reasons for it but because those perfectly good reasons haven't been discussed.

I mean, the answer I'm expecting to hear is something lie: these X projects all came in 20% below budget because of excellent management (perfect opportunity to assign some political credit somewhere), we also saved $Y due to the a strong Canadian dollar versus the costs of foreign supplies, and of course we always budget a 10% contingency which we didn't need in this case. Something like that, though I'm of course hoping to hear that based on actual facts rather than just making up my own.

... not sure what's so terrible about that.

[Jacob]

The problem is that the Jacobs and Vipers are dedicated to the destruction of the current government and the suppression of everything that it believes in.  It's only natural that the government would be somewhat guarded in sharing information with them, right?

Perhaps natural, but also undemocratic.

[Jacob]

So there was some rare political discussion at the office at lunch and there was some discussion about the new Trudeau and the West. One person threw out the factoid that there's something like a 20% for the Liberal party in BC when it's connected to Trudeau.

Now... I have no idea what the source of that is or how accurate it is. I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything else to support or counter that?

[Neil]

The problem is that the Jacobs and Vipers are dedicated to the destruction of the current government and the suppression of everything that it believes in.  It's only natural that the government would be somewhat guarded in sharing information with them, right?

Ah, so you are now saying that the government does not share the information.  But then, where did CC got his info that some provinces deserved the money and some did not?  Where did he get his info that some projects were not needed?

How should I know?  I'm just making the point that the government should play their cards close to their chest, what with all he unscrupulous enemies that they have, like people who live in Quebec or various brands of leftist weirdbeards.

[Neil]

The problem is that the Jacobs and Vipers are dedicated to the destruction of the current government and the suppression of everything that it believes in.  It's only natural that the government would be somewhat guarded in sharing information with them, right?

Perhaps natural, but also undemocratic.

Not really.  They were the ones that the people chose to run things.  That's how democracy works.

Democracy does not always equal stupid.

[viper37]

So there was some rare political discussion at the office at lunch and there was some discussion about the new Trudeau and the West. One person threw out the factoid that there's something like a 20% for the Liberal party in BC when it's connected to Trudeau.

Now... I have no idea what the source of that is or how accurate it is. I'm wondering if anyone has heard anything else to support or counter that?

I think I saw some poll where LPC could be ahead in polls if Justin was their leader.

But polls, that long before an election, with an hypothetical leader in an hypothetical condition aren't reliable at all.

Legault was Premier with a an overwhelming majority of Quebecers before creating his own party.  Jean Charest was crushing Lucien Bouchard while he was still in Ottawa.  Dion was to become the new PM, so did Ignatief.

[viper37]

How should I know?  I'm just making the point that the government should play their cards close to their chest, what with all he unscrupulous enemies that they have, like people who live in Quebec or various brands of leftist weirdbeards.

So CC is just spouting nonsense?  I should have figured

Well, your position has at least the merit of clarity.  You favor a Venezueal style regime, with elections that means nothing instead of a system of checks and balances like the USA.

[Valmy]

Not really.  They were the ones that the people chose to run things.  That's how democracy works.

Democracy does not always equal stupid.

Well people cannot really be expected to make good choices in a Democracy if they do not have the pertinent information.  Granted it rarely stops them from voting anyway but still.

[Neil]

How should I know?  I'm just making the point that the government should play their cards close to their chest, what with all he unscrupulous enemies that they have, like people who live in Quebec or various brands of leftist weirdbeards.

So CC is just spouting nonsense?  I should have figured

Well, your position has at least the merit of clarity.  You favor a Venezueal style regime, with elections that means nothing instead of a system of checks and balances like the USA.

I don't know where you're getting any of this from, although I suppose you're right that I would never favour a US-style system under any circumstances.

Elections are the only thing that matters.  That's when the public gets their input, rather than hashing things out in law courts that only serve to enrich lawyers.

[Neil]

Not really.  They were the ones that the people chose to run things.  That's how democracy works.

Democracy does not always equal stupid.

Well people cannot really be expected to make good choices in a Democracy if they do not have the pertinent information.  Granted it rarely stops them from voting anyway but still.

Democracy isn't about information.  Emotion is what makes the wheels turn.  Who do you trust?  Whose values to you share?  What tribe are you a part of?  What's the gender of the candidate?  What is his race?

[crazy canuck]

Again what bit about no project going without funding and not spending stimulus money because it was not needed is so fucking hard to understand?

You still have not answered my question: Wich provinces deserve money, wich does not deserve money.  You said Quebec did not deserve money.  I want to know if it's just Quebec, or if there are others like us.

No province "deserves" money.