[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Apparently asking for a little thing called evidence is a bridge too far for you.

No cameras because no electricity and the police are just beginning their investigations.  We may never have definitive proof.  But the people constantly insulting and threatening this guy aren't right wingers.

[Zoupa]

I find that trying to blame "the left" or "the right" for specific incidents is a endless rabbit hole to fall into.  Even worse is trying to assess "responsibility" to various political sides.

But surely it's not too much to ask for people to denounce crime no matter who commits it?  No matter even if they're on "your side"?  You don't have to accept personal responsibility - just say people are wrong to do it.

It depends on the crime. The law evolves. A hundred years ago I could beat my wife to death with a tire iron if I wanted too.

But yes sure, as a general statement, you'd be hard pressed to find a politician who doesn't denounce "crime".

Do you think it's relevant/appropriate/logical for Jasmeet Singh to call a press conference and say "This Jaguar should not have been firebombed, this sheep hold should not have been burnt"? I mean there has not been any arrests as far as I can tell.

How exactly is "the left" responsible for these events?

[viper37]

No, not in 1922 Canada anyway.  Not too sure about 1722 Canada either.  Maybe in 1522 the Iroquoian of the St-Lawrence allowed it, I don't know, but since it was a matrilineal society, it's doubtful.  Might have better chance with the Inuits and Innu of that time period.  But it's not really relevant to our current society.

[Zoupa]

woooosh

[Grey Fox]

Like I said. Unwavering supporter of the status quo.

[viper37]

Like I said. Unwavering supporter of the status quo.

Nah, it's called "avoiding regression".

[viper37]

Kill one, kill one thousand, same difference.  So has the Supreme Court decided today, ruling in favour of Alexandre Bissonnette, the Quebec Mosque mass shooter.

I am extremely disapointed.  So are is the small Muslim community of Quebec city.

Meanwhile, the supporters of status quo rejoice and regressive social policies rejoice.  <loooong sigh>.

[Grey Fox]

You are really weird right winger.


There is nothing regressive in believing that rehabilitation  needs a chance to exist. That's actually quite progressive.

Vengeance is no way to run a society. Thinking it leads to becoming Texas.

[viper37]

There is nothing regressive in believing that rehabilitation  needs a chance to exist. That's actually quite progressive.

There's nothing progressive about having a known killer coming to live near you when you were one of his targets. 

Look at how the former PQ ministers felt when Denis Lortie was freed.  Hint: they were totally opposed to his freedom.  Can't accuse them of being rigthwingers.

Rehabilition rarely works for such individuals, unless there's a known mental health problem that can be treated, like the killer of Nancy Michaud (Rivière-Ouelle).  At least, people are protected while he his behind bars.  Now, he'll likely be free by 2042, only 52, and still be able to illegally buy a gun.

[Sheilbh]

Ish. I think there are some crimes and circumstances where it's fair to give a life sentence that means life.

Vengeance is no way to run a society (though part of the punishment is also to protect the community), but there are circumstances where it should be an option. I think terrorism is one because of the impact on the victims - but also I think there's in a way more need to punish an ideologically motivated multiple murderer because it is an attack on our society and communities in a way that, for want of a better word, an incidental crime isn't. I'd probably make an exception for young people - I think people (practically speaking, men) under 25 maybe should have the possibility of rehabilitation regardless.

In terms common law jurisdictions the New Zealand courts have reached the opposite conclusion in the Christchurch killer's appeals that a whole life without parole sentence was justified.

Here there are whole life orders, which have been upheld by the European Court of Human Rights in part because the Home Secretary can release a prisoner in exceptional circumstances - largely on compassionate grounds. They can also appeal to reduce it from a whole life order if the sentencing was wrong (there need to be aggravating factors like killing a child, multiple murders, sexual violence or terrorism).

Edit: And, of course, the other advantage of a form of life without parole is that it does not force the families of victims to go through parole hearings every x years - especially in cases like terrorist or serial killers where parole is likely to be denied anyway. It seems a bit of a cruelty to force families to go through that when the result is exceptionally unlikely to ever be granting parole.

[crazy canuck]

There is nothing regressive in believing that rehabilitation  needs a chance to exist. That's actually quite progressive.

There's nothing progressive about having a known killer coming to live near you when you were one of his targets. 

Look at how the former PQ ministers felt when Denis Lortie was freed.  Hint: they were totally opposed to his freedom.  Can't accuse them of being rigthwingers.

Rehabilition rarely works for such individuals, unless there's a known mental health problem that can be treated, like the killer of Nancy Michaud (Rivière-Ouelle).  At least, people are protected while he his behind bars.  Now, he'll likely be free by 2042, only 52, and still be able to illegally buy a gun.

Did Canada revoke the criminal background check before issuing a gun licence?  Or have you mixed up our country with our friends to the South?

[Grey Fox]

Well, he did write illegally. We can all do all the illegal things.

[Grey Fox]

There is nothing regressive in believing that rehabilitation  needs a chance to exist. That's actually quite progressive.

There's nothing progressive about having a known killer coming to live near you when you were one of his targets. 

Look at how the former PQ ministers felt when Denis Lortie was freed.  Hint: they were totally opposed to his freedom.  Can't accuse them of being rigthwingers.

Rehabilition rarely works for such individuals, unless there's a known mental health problem that can be treated, like the killer of Nancy Michaud (Rivière-Ouelle).  At least, people are protected while he his behind bars.  Now, he'll likely be free by 2042, only 52, and still be able to illegally buy a gun.

Yes but that's how the RoC wants to differentiate themselves from the USA.

And, maybe, one more reason why we should leave them.

[viper37]

There is nothing regressive in believing that rehabilitation  needs a chance to exist. That's actually quite progressive.

There's nothing progressive about having a known killer coming to live near you when you were one of his targets. 

Look at how the former PQ ministers felt when Denis Lortie was freed.  Hint: they were totally opposed to his freedom.  Can't accuse them of being rigthwingers.

Rehabilition rarely works for such individuals, unless there's a known mental health problem that can be treated, like the killer of Nancy Michaud (Rivière-Ouelle).  At least, people are protected while he his behind bars.  Now, he'll likely be free by 2042, only 52, and still be able to illegally buy a gun.

Did Canada revoke the criminal background check before issuing a gun licence?  Or have you mixed up our country with our friends to the South?

I said illegally. 

In all of the mass shootings since Polytechnique, all guns were illegally obtained.  Only that first one was a legit gun.  And Marc Lépine walked right through the door with his rifle, with no questions asked.  Lots of things went wrong that day.  People were used to hostage situations, not shootings.  But hey, we harrassed hunters and removed all "violent" cartoons from our airwaves, so problem fixed, I guess.

Illegal guns are still sold in this country, just like the one he used.  Handguns aren't currently cheap, but there are other types of weapons.

And the last time a mass killing happened in Quebec, the criminal was armed with a sword. Which is also not difficult to find.

Obviously, the probability such a men would recidivate is low.  But he can inspire other people, meet younger wannabes when he's just 52 and still hates muslims and migrants.

[viper37]

And, maybe, one more reason why we should leave them.

Well, there are plenty, but it's pretty much a deadend politically speaking.  Besides, been there, done that, and all that stuff.  One referendum was enough for my lifetime.  Young ones like you should have one if they want to