[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Protestant anglosaxons. They hate Catholics too. Not white enough.


@ viper I hate construction unions too (they're all mobbed up), other unions are hit or miss. I always thought that Quebec unions were so strong because of their very pro francophone stance, but I could be wrong.

Historically, the French speakers were the workforce and the English speakers where the business leaders.  Unions evolved as part of this, representing mostly French workers against mostly English Canadian business owners.  es.

The PQ was the leftmost political party in Quebec and they needed allies to promote their independence cause.  The unions were all to happy to oblige.  Having politicians that you can reach directly is always useful.  Legal or illegal, help was provided, just like business have contributed to the Liberal Party, legally or otherwise.  They can't match the business $$$, but they can pay "volunteers" to help the parties of their choice with various campaign related work.

When the PQ decided to tackle the deficit problem and limit pay raise to public sector employees, both the CSN and the FTQ promoted their new platform, Union des Forces Progressistes, which later became Québec Solidaire.  With their usual intimidation tacticts, they also managed to have a direct line to Jean Charest while he was Prime Minister. 

A few trucks sent crashing here and there, a couple of traffic jams in critical infrastructures like Montreal's Louis-Hippolyte Lafontaine tunnel, and voilà!  No more silly talks of reforming the work code, no more insistence on reaching zero deficit by limiting public pay raise to 5%, no investigation of any kind on union's malpractices and a direct line to the PM for the FTQ President was given to "keep the dialogue open". 

[viper37]

I hate how Anglo-Saxon vocabulary (or at least the idea of it) has become a signal for white supremacy/ xenophobia

That's been pretty much the case since 1763. 

[Barrister]

In other news, I know BB has talked of Brian Jean a few times here, but I can't remember anything about him.  Don't know if he'll be the top candidate for Kenney's replacement or someone else is seen as a natural successor.  In any case, I'd better leave him to discuss the details of all this.

Former backbench MP under Harper.  Former leader of the Wildrose Alliance Party, which merged to form the United Conservatives.  Jean then lost the leadership race for the UCP to Kenney, in a race which later showed that Kenney was behind a "kamikaze" candidate in the race who just took shots at Jean before quitting to endorse Kenney.

Re-entered Alberta politics to run in a by-election on an explicit platform against Kenney.  Very much on the anti-lockdown side of the pandemic.

[viper37]

Although surely in the context of Canada it also has an anti-Quebec angle, or just race?

The Liberal Party has got this part covered pretty well.

The anti-Quebec angle in Federal politics is mostly absent from the Conservative Party.  You will see it in the NDP and the Liberal because they believe in the supremacy of the Federal government over everyone and everything. It's a remnant of their British Empire thing, I guess.    (alternatively, Grey Fox will say it's because of their weak provincial governments and CC will deny it while admitting his own province, with a progressive government can't seem to pass their own progressive legislation without asking the Feds to do it for them )

Where these is an anti-Quebec angle in Canadian politics is at the provincial level, especially in Alberta and Saskatchewan, due to colliding economic interests.  The Conservatives have long realized they need Quebec if they hope to achieve victory over the Liberal Party.  Any gain they make is a net loss for the Liberals.

I think it's different here. Short, simple Anglo-Saxon = swearing

Didn't know about the swearing part.  Interesting.

Same with Vikings, Rome, Greece - basically everything Paradox have made a game about. Never quite sure how to respond to it.

I usually try to explain how things really were in history, but I'm not sure I'm having much success.
People believe in their myths and the inconvenient truth is much less interesting.

Also, they like Russia.  A lot.

[viper37]

Former backbench MP under Harper.  Former leader of the Wildrose Alliance Party, which merged to form the United Conservatives.  Jean then lost the leadership race for the UCP to Kenney, in a race which later showed that Kenney was behind a "kamikaze" candidate in the race who just took shots at Jean before quitting to endorse Kenney.

Re-entered Alberta politics to run in a by-election on an explicit platform against Kenney.  Very much on the anti-lockdown side of the pandemic.

I misremembered the kamikaze part. Cheap shot of Kenney.

Doesn't seem like Jean is an improvement though. He might have more ethics, but his anti-lockdown stance indicates he does not care much for science.  I guess he's a climate change denier too?

[viper37]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the UK meaning of "simple Anglo-Saxon = swearing"...

In white supremacist circles "Anglo-Saxon" goes with "we were more white in the past" and "English is more white" and all the racist pseudo-history fantasy that white supremacists like to indulge in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_White

It is alleged that the first known instance of derogatory use of the phrase "speak white" against French-speaking Canadians occurred on October 12, 1889, when member of the Canadian Liberal party Henri Bourassa was booed by English-speaking members of the parliament and shouted at to "Speak White!" during debates in the Canadian House of Commons on Canada's engagement in the Second Boer War.

On March 7, 2007, journalist Larry Zolf published an article called "Speak White" on CBC News Online, giving anecdotal evidence of Canadian immigrants being told to "speak white" by hostile English-speaking Canadians.^[5] In the same article, Zolf also criticizes then-Liberal Party candidate Stéphane Dion, wanting to tell him to "speaking white" for Dion's "mangling the English language," and citing his lack of English proficiency as the reason for the candidate's unpopularity with English-speaking Canadian voters.^[6]

[viper37]

I was wrong. Kenneybwins with 51% and resigns.

Good riddance to the worst Provincial Premier in Canadian history.

Jean Charest has nothing to envy Kenney on this front.

[viper37]

Then open your eyes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_White

It is alleged that the first known instance of derogatory use of the phrase "speak white" against French-speaking Canadians occurred on October 12, 1889, when member of the Canadian Liberal party Henri Bourassa was booed by English-speaking members of the parliament and shouted at to "Speak White!" during debates in the Canadian House of Commons on Canada's engagement in the Second Boer War.

On March 7, 2007, journalist Larry Zolf published an article called "Speak White" on CBC News Online, giving anecdotal evidence of Canadian immigrants being told to "speak white" by hostile English-speaking Canadians.^[5] In the same article, Zolf also criticizes then-Liberal Party candidate Stéphane Dion, wanting to tell him to "speaking white" for Dion's "mangling the English language," and citing his lack of English proficiency as the reason for the candidate's unpopularity with English-speaking Canadian voters.

I guess Dion was that famous Conservative minister?

[viper37]

About 10 cases of monkeypox were detected in Quebec.

So today, I learnt that monkeypox does not concern veterinarians.  Ah.  And they talk of "simple" Anglo-Saxon language!

On the plus side, I apparently do not have to worry about catching this one.  

[Rex Francorum]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the UK meaning of "simple Anglo-Saxon = swearing"...

In white supremacist circles "Anglo-Saxon" goes with "we were more white in the past" and "English is more white" and all the racist pseudo-history fantasy that white supremacists like to indulge in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speak_White

It is alleged that the first known instance of derogatory use of the phrase "speak white" against French-speaking Canadians occurred on October 12, 1889, when member of the Canadian Liberal party Henri Bourassa was booed by English-speaking members of the parliament and shouted at to "Speak White!" during debates in the Canadian House of Commons on Canada's engagement in the Second Boer War.

On March 7, 2007, journalist Larry Zolf published an article called "Speak White" on CBC News Online, giving anecdotal evidence of Canadian immigrants being told to "speak white" by hostile English-speaking Canadians.^[5] In the same article, Zolf also criticizes then-Liberal Party candidate Stéphane Dion, wanting to tell him to "speaking white" for Dion's "mangling the English language," and citing his lack of English proficiency as the reason for the candidate's unpopularity with English-speaking Canadian voters.^[6]

Henri Bourassa was not a M.P. in 1889 [He was only 21 then]. Unless it is 1899, which could be more accurate, as the Canadian participation in the Boers War was heavily discussed.

[Sheilbh]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the UK meaning of "simple Anglo-Saxon = swearing"...

In white supremacist circles "Anglo-Saxon" goes with "we were more white in the past" and "English is more white" and all the racist pseudo-history fantasy that white supremacists like to indulge in.

Yeah - I think it's of a part with the far-right Viking thing or the overlap of trad architecture and the far-right.

Though to be honest with the Anglo-Saxon stuff almost everything I've seen on that has been from when Medievalist Twitter suddenly pops up on my feed - because it seems like they're always going through contentious rows. I've seen more of the direct Viking/Rome/trad architecture far-right.

As with those I never know how to respond - and I get why it must be tough if, for example, you are a scholar who has spent your life studying the Vikings or Anglo-Saxons or classics. I've no idea what the correct response is. I wouldn't want to cede those topics or entire historical cultures to the far-right, on the other hand you can't enable them - and it's also really important to also acknowledge/look at the reception and uses of that topic historicaly which absolutely was part of how white supremacism was structured/created. 

I'm not an academic or a scholar but I do slightly worry about how to position/understand some of my interests that I read about and have books about etc are ultimately now far-right adjacent (less so the Vikings and Romans and Anglo-Saxons - more Medieval/Early Modern stuff in general).

About 10 cases of monkeypox were detected in Quebec.

I have not wanted to start a thread on this to avoid jinxing a new pandemic into being but we've had cases in the UK. It went from one case in London, then two the next week, then four - then I read about cases in Spain

None of the cases in the UK have any links or recent travel to West Africa but that's where this strain of monkeypox comes from and the most recent cases have all been in gay or bisexual men or other men who have sex with men. It's very weird.

[garbon]

Yeah - I think it's of a part with the far-right Viking thing or the overlap of trad architecture and the far-right.

Though to be honest with the Anglo-Saxon stuff almost everything I've seen on that has been from when Medievalist Twitter suddenly pops up on my feed - because it seems like they're always going through contentious rows. I've seen more of the direct Viking/Rome/trad architecture far-right.

As with those I never know how to respond - and I get why it must be tough if, for example, you are a scholar who has spent your life studying the Vikings or Anglo-Saxons or classics. I've no idea what the correct response is. I wouldn't want to cede those topics or entire historical cultures to the far-right, on the other hand you can't enable them - and it's also really important to also acknowledge/look at the reception and uses of that topic historicaly which absolutely was part of how white supremacism was structured/created. 

I'm not an academic or a scholar but I do slightly worry about how to position/understand some of my interests that I read about and have books about etc are ultimately now far-right adjacent (less so the Vikings and Romans and Anglo-Saxons - more Medieval/Early Modern stuff in general).

I'm not sure I understand what you think current scholars should be doing against far right twisting of their disciplines.

[Oexmelin]

Henri Bourassa was not a M.P. in 1889 [He was only 21 then]. Unless it is 1899, which could be more accurate, as the Canadian participation in the Boers War was heavily discussed.

The Henri Bourassa origin story is weird and, I suspect, false. I have never found the origin of that story, and Bourassa's big discourses against the Boer War are in 1900-1901. I think it's much more likely that the expression was rather used in the Canadian army during WWII, and the experience of French Canadians in the troops confronted with it, gave rise to the indignation. First easily found mentions in the press are from the 1940s. 

[Sheilbh]

I'm not sure I understand what you think current scholars should be doing against far right twisting of their disciplines.

Sadly you and me both

I don't know what they should be doing - I don't know what's the correct response, even if you're not professionally involved and just interested. I don't want to give the far-right ownership of disciplines or symbols - but I don't know how you effectively resist it, especially in popular perception.

[garbon]

I'm not sure I understand what you think current scholars should be doing against far right twisting of their disciplines.

Sadly you and me both

I don't know what they should be doing - I don't know what's the correct response, even if you're not professionally involved and just interested. I don't want to give the far-right ownership of disciplines or symbols - but I don't know how you effectively resist it, especially in popular perception.

Besides making sure to have a bulwark (or perhaps an eye out) towards those who want to grab things for racist purposes, I'm not sure why there would be more to do than just keep doing the academic work they are doing. Seems like a fool's errand and distraction to get caught up in how to prevent racists from using stuff.