[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Habbaku]

Something tells me Ottawa wasn't a city when the Indians were fighting each other. Just a hunch.

[crazy canuck]

You might want to check out the social media of the person now running for leader - and all the support he gave them throughout.

I disagree with their stance, I think it's a stupid idea to try to harness such populist movement, but that does not make Poilievre a fascist, nor does it make the Conservative Party a haven for fascists. Unless you want to label everything right of the corrupt & ineffician Liberal Party as fascist. 

It is your right, after all, but just say it so that the LPC is rightmost party you'll ever tolerate in your vision of democracy.  It would clarify some things. But Poilievre isn't party leader right now, and he hasn't published any platform.  He's a candidate, for now.  We'll see if there are others and what kind of platforum they will run on.  I'd really wish Gérard Deltell would run, but I don't think he wants to.

As for Oex, he has a tendancy to read everything political in Canada from a US-centric point of view since he went to work over there.  Conservative Party = Republican Party.  Fair game here too.  Just don't act so offended when I refer to NDP supporters as commies.

Viper, your claim was that no Conservative party official has done anything to support fascists.  The guy who will likely be the new leader has been actively cheering them on.

[viper37]

Viper, your claim was that no Conservative party official has done anything to support fascists.  The guy who will likely be the new leader has been actively cheering them on.

As many others have said, the group of protesters is not a fascist group.  There are certainly fascists in the lot, but it would as accurate as to say Canadians are fascists because we tolerate the existence of many such groups.

[crazy canuck]

Granted, not all or even a majority are fascists.  But there are fascists within that group, and the would be Conservative leaders have cheered them all on without making any effort to call out the fascists.  He has in fact encouraged them.

[viper37]

Granted, not all or even a majority are fascists.  But there are fascists within that group, and the would be Conservative leaders have cheered them all on without making any effort to call out the fascists.  He has in fact encouraged them.

He is not leader yet.  He has not denounced the actions of the protesters, but he has not condoned or diminished their acts either.

It is very similar to the attitude of the NDP during other life-disrupting protests, like when some members of the First Nations blocaded the railroads because they rejected democracy.

[crazy canuck]

Granted, not all or even a majority are fascists.  But there are fascists within that group, and the would be Conservative leaders have cheered them all on without making any effort to call out the fascists.  He has in fact encouraged them.

He is not leader yet.  He has not denounced the actions of the protesters, but he has not condoned or diminished their acts either.

It is very similar to the attitude of the NDP during other life-disrupting protests, like when some members of the First Nations blocaded the railroads because they rejected democracy.

I remind you, your claim was that no Conservative officials are supporting the fascists.  In fact there are - and they are highly placed officials.  Not only the person who will likely win the leadership but also the interim leader.  Please get your head out of the sand.  It is really only going to be people like you who support the Conservatives who are going to motivate them not to go full Trump.

[Jacob]

My local Conservative friend - who's always told be to vote Conservative in every election, whose been involved in various Conservative candidate's election campaigns, and whose wife was actually a candidate for the BC Liberals (in the Conservative side of things, albeit in a no hope NDP stronghold) just told me he doesn't expect to see anyone who's not a clown in the leadership race, and that the Conservatives are making it hard for people like him to continue to support them.

Obviously it's just one person, so purely anecdotal. I wonder how widespread that reaction is.

[viper37]

Granted, not all or even a majority are fascists.  But there are fascists within that group, and the would be Conservative leaders have cheered them all on without making any effort to call out the fascists.  He has in fact encouraged them.

He is not leader yet.  He has not denounced the actions of the protesters, but he has not condoned or diminished their acts either.

It is very similar to the attitude of the NDP during other life-disrupting protests, like when some members of the First Nations blocaded the railroads because they rejected democracy.

I remind you, your claim was that no Conservative officials are supporting the fascists.  In fact there are - and they are highly placed officials.  Not only the person who will likely win the leadership but also the interim leader.  Please get your head out of the sand.  It is really only going to be people like you who support the Conservatives who are going to motivate them not to go full Trump.

What Poilievre said is basically the same as what Joel Lightbound, Liberal MP and Quebec Lieutenant said of his government.

[viper37]

Obviously it's just one person, so purely anecdotal. I wonder how widespread that reaction is.

He's not alone.  But I do not know how widespread it is.  I just know lots of people amongst Quebec's Conservatives feel that way.  If BB was here, he could tell us the mood at the other side of the country, among the moderates like him.

Like I said, it's wait and see.  The leadership race ain't even started.

[11B4V]

So, the old couple that lives above the rowdy biker bar is having a domestic squabble.

[Jacob]

He's not alone.  But I do not know how widespread it is.  I just know lots of people amongst Quebec's Conservatives feel that way.  If BB was here, he could tell us the mood at the other side of the country, among the moderates like him.

Like I said, it's wait and see.  The leadership race ain't even started.

I don't know if I'd call BB a moderate; I have him on the right wing of the party. IIRC, he did say that O'Toole was "Liberal Light", f. ex.

Still, he's sensible and well-intentioned and respects the rule of law... so I guess maybe that makes him a moderate now? I don't know how he'd feel about that label.

[Grey Fox]

Granted, not all or even a majority are fascists.  But there are fascists within that group, and the would be Conservative leaders have cheered them all on without making any effort to call out the fascists.  He has in fact encouraged them.

He is not leader yet.  He has not denounced the actions of the protesters, but he has not condoned or diminished their acts either.

It is very similar to the attitude of the NDP during other life-disrupting protests, like when some members of the First Nations blocaded the railroads because they rejected democracy.

I remind you, your claim was that no Conservative officials are supporting the fascists.  In fact there are - and they are highly placed officials.  Not only the person who will likely win the leadership but also the interim leader.  Please get your head out of the sand.  It is really only going to be people like you who support the Conservatives who are going to motivate them not to go full Trump.

What Poilievre said is basically the same as what Joel Lightbound, Liberal MP and Quebec Lieutenant said of his government.

It was quite the White Supremacist coming out, gotta say.

[OttoVonBismarck]

Something I don't understand about this latest bout of Canadian fecklessness--how are all these truckers getting away with not running their trucks for their jobs? The vast majority of truck drivers in America at least are no longer owner-operators but instead work for a large company and the trucks don't belong to them. Wouldn't these people in theory be liable for criminal charges for stealing a company truck, not to mention being dismissed for idling the truck in a city for weeks instead of driving?

[Oexmelin]

I would bet that these truckers are indeed the remaining minority of independent contractors who own their truck (plus a few company owners). My experience of those guys (at least, 10 years ago) was that they tended to run libertarian.

[crazy canuck]

I would bet that these truckers are indeed the remaining minority of independent contractors who own their truck (plus a few company owners). My experience of those guys (at least, 10 years ago) was that they tended to run libertarian.

Oex, most truck drivers in Canada are owner operators.  Most trucking companies own a few trucks and directly employ a few truckers directly to drive them, but it is much more advantageous for both the drivers and the companies to have most of the freight delivered through a contractor arrangement.  The advantages for the trucking companies are fairly obvious in that they do not have to invest as much in the trucks themselves.  The tax advantages for the owner operators is also obvious.  The advantage for the owner operators that is not so obvious (and also not present in the US) is the law developed in Canada regarding the treatment of dependent contractors on termination.  Essentially they are treated the same as employees in terms of the duties owed to them.  And so owner operators get the best of both worlds, income at a reduced tax burden and the protections given as if they were employees.

So, not at all because they are libertarian, very much because it is the most rational choice to make if you can get a rig to run.

Also, it is critical to understand these so called truckers at the protests are not at all representative of the trucking industry.