[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Jacob]

Also... I do think that the organizers of the convoy (both Canadians and foreign) are hoping this will coalesce into a Tea Party like moment in Canada - the genesis of an organization and (eventually) a popular movement that will allow the radical right to take over the right wing party of Canada and move the discourse and the population further right.

I wonder how likely it is to work.

What makes you think the radical right has not already taken over the Conservatives?

It's a matter of degrees. The fact that an internal report comes out and says "we are still hurt by the 'Barbaric Cultural Practices' line from 2015", the fact that Bernier didn't win, the fact the O'Toole is getting ousted for being "Liberal Light" of all things indicate to me that there's still room for them to move further towards the radical right.

And I think that's part of what the convoy organizers are attempting to achieve here, regardless of whether we think the Conservatives are already sufficiently (or perhaps even too far) right radicals.

[Jacob]

Some historical context, the Reform Party already left the Conservatives once.  The only difference is that, as you have noted, it is the Reformers who dominated the party when it reformed (see what I did there  )

Indeed. The Reformers split away from the Tories and then eventually ate them, assimilating expelling some Red Tories but assimilating some.

We saw a similar process happen with the Alberta Conservatives, I'm pretty sure, and it looks like the folks in parties like the Mavericks and Alberta Rose parties are trying the same trick once more... and I think they're seeing the convoy as a potential catalyst for that process.

[Grey Fox]

So, Ottawa is in the verge of a civil confrontation since their police force has totally abandoned the idea to do anything about the freedumb terrorists.

At least from what I read on the socials.

[HVC]

Conservative solidarity or something else?

[Grey Fox]

Counter protests are being organized.

[Jacob]

Counter protests are being organized.

I spent a fair bit of time thinking about what I would, were I in Ottawa, to make the convoy protesters feel unwelcome.

[Oexmelin]

So, Ottawa is in the verge of a civil confrontation since their police force has totally abandoned the idea to do anything about the freedumb terrorists.

At least from what I read on the socials.

Here's a suggestion: convince police officers that the protesters are actually students. This should spur them into action.

[Grey Fox]

Students, indigenous, BLM, general left leaning protests. Anything that isn't angry white 40 something men

I hope the left learns something and we start protesting by using trucks.

[Malthus]

What would it take for the NDP to not be hopeless, in your estimation Malthus?

I don't know.

The *perception* is that they would rather be ideologically pure than actually accomplish concrete progress on the issues that matter from a leftish perspective, such as improving worker's rights, addressing increasing economic inequality, realistic proposals to address climate change that are notably different from the liberals, etc.

Dunno if that is fair or not, only that they are not doing well in elections or generating real enthusiasm as they are now.

Though it must be said, I have heard others claim their lacklustre performance could be improved if they went all out with leftish populism - in short, the exact opposite: that they have been too timid, too 'realistic'. Personally I think that would be a mistake, that it would generate enthusiasm for a minority but not enough to win elections - same problem I suspect the right wing populism that the Conservative party appears to be leaning towards will run into: their followers will be very enthusiastic, but not enough to win, and scary enough to get more to vote Liberal.

[viper37]

Students, indigenous, BLM, general left leaning protests. Anything that isn't angry white 40 something men

I hope the left learns something and we start protesting by using trucks.

I like how everyone is scandalized about truckers paralyzing downtown Ottawa, and how they are hurting the economy.

So, now, they care?

[Oexmelin]

I am not concerned about paralyzing downtown Ottawa, or hurting the economy.

I am concerned about the rise of fascism and the complacency of modern-day conservatism to it.

[Jacob]

I like how everyone is scandalized about truckers paralyzing downtown Ottawa, and how they are hurting the economy.

So, now, they care?

As someone who lived a number of years in Ottawa, I am absolutely pissed off about what the FluKluxClan is doing to that town, yes. We've had many many demonstrations over the years, and none of them have forced businesses to shut down for several days, prevent people from going to work, or kept people from putting their kids to bed by incessant honking at 10 PM for days on end.

I know for many people outside of Ottawa, they don't distinguish between the population of the city and the government, so you don't give a fuck about hurting the regular people who live there. But yeah, my parents are there, my friends are there, I see those trucks blocking streets a few blocks from my high school and I have empathy for the people who live in Ottawa.

There is no comparison to protesters crowding Parliament Hill, whatever cause they may espouse, whether I agree with them or despise them.

[Jacob]

It seems the Prairie provinces are announcing the end of various restrictions coming "very soon". I wonder how much that has to do with the convoy?

[PRC]

What would it take for the NDP to not be hopeless, in your estimation Malthus?

I don't know.

The *perception* is that they would rather be ideologically pure than actually accomplish concrete progress on the issues that matter from a leftish perspective, such as improving worker's rights, addressing increasing economic inequality, realistic proposals to address climate change that are notably different from the liberals, etc.

Dunno if that is fair or not, only that they are not doing well in elections or generating real enthusiasm as they are now.

Though it must be said, I have heard others claim their lacklustre performance could be improved if they went all out with leftish populism - in short, the exact opposite: that they have been too timid, too 'realistic'. Personally I think that would be a mistake, that it would generate enthusiasm for a minority but not enough to win elections - same problem I suspect the right wing populism that the Conservative party appears to be leaning towards will run into: their followers will be very enthusiastic, but not enough to win, and scary enough to get more to vote Liberal.

The NDP has been exceptionally successful despite the the lack in electoral victories / number of seats, and never having a Prime Minister.  NDP policy proposals of the past have become the mainstream, enacted through a Liberal Prime Minister.  They've been able to drive more policy as a minority party than the Conservatives have with their many more seats.

[Jacob]

I can also say the the BC NDP is doing a pretty credible job in government. The "care more about ideological purity than practical matters of governing" does not seem particularly applicable in this case, I don't think.