[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

It's very difficult to study or compare the data between two places with regards to Covid pre-vaccine and come up with analyses.

Since the vaccine is widely available though, it's much simpler. The main difference between Alberta and BC are its citizens. I think right-leaning folks have, over the last 20 years, gradually drifted towards a more US Republican views. The correlation is right there.

I live near Kelowna, where folks consistently vote Conservative in federal and provincial elections. Kelowna has the worst vaccination rate in BC (as of last month, I haven't checked recently).

It is actually pretty easy to compare and contrast, say Alberta and BC.  And it is unfair to paint PHOs who are not able to make decisions and are only able to advise a political master - the Alberta model and I think the UK.  With other jurisdictions where PHOs are given statutory authority to make decisions.  Under the latter situation politicians would have to expressly admit they are intervening for political reasons.

[Jacob]

It is actually pretty easy to compare and contrast, say Alberta and BC.  And it is unfair to paint PHOs who are not able to make decisions and are only able to advise a political master - the Alberta model and I think the UK.  With other jurisdictions where PHOs are given statutory authority to make decisions.  Under the latter situation politicians would have to expressly admit they are intervening for political reasons.

I'd be interested  in seeing the statutory differences between the Alberta and BC PHOs laid out.

[crazy canuck]

It is actually pretty easy to compare and contrast, say Alberta and BC.  And it is unfair to paint PHOs who are not able to make decisions and are only able to advise a political master - the Alberta model and I think the UK.  With other jurisdictions where PHOs are given statutory authority to make decisions.  Under the latter situation politicians would have to expressly admit they are intervening for political reasons.

I'd be interested  in seeing the statutory differences between the Alberta and BC PHOs laid out.

There are a number of statutory powers of decision the PHO has under the BC legislation, I have reproduced the most salient below - but the most important thing to note is it is a decision of the PHO, not a decision of the minister of health nor cabinet.

30   (1)A health officer may issue an order under this Division only if the health officer reasonably believes that

(a)a health hazard exists,

(b)a condition, a thing or an activity presents a significant risk of causing a health hazard,

(c)a person has contravened a provision of the Act or a regulation made under it, or

(d)a person has contravened a term or condition of a licence or permit held by the person under this Act.

(2)For greater certainty, subsection (1) (a) to (c) applies even if the person subject to the order is complying with all terms and conditions of a licence, a permit, an approval or another authorization issued under this or any other enactment.

General powers respecting health hazards and contraventions
31   (1)If the circumstances described in section 30 [when orders respecting health hazards and contraventions may be made] apply, a health officer may order a person to do anything that the health officer reasonably believes is necessary for any of the following purposes:

(a)to determine whether a health hazard exists;

(b)to prevent or stop a health hazard, or mitigate the harm or prevent further harm from a health hazard;

(c)to bring the person into compliance with the Act or a regulation made under it;

(d)to bring the person into compliance with a term or condition of a licence or permit held by that person under this Act.

(2)A health officer may issue an order under subsection (1) to any of the following persons:

(a)a person whose action or omission

(i)is causing or has caused a health hazard, or

(ii)is not in compliance with the Act or a regulation made under it, or a term or condition of the person's licence or permit;

(b)a person who has custody or control of a thing, or control of a condition, that

(i)is a health hazard or is causing or has caused a health hazard, or

(ii)is not in compliance with the Act or a regulation made under it, or a term or condition of the person's licence or permit;

(c)the owner or occupier of a place where

(i)a health hazard is located, or

(ii)an activity is occurring that is not in compliance with the Act or a regulation made under it, or a term or condition of the licence or permit of the person doing the activity.

In Alberta, as BB has said, their PHO only advises cabinet and they make the decisions.  And that is because of the way their legislation reads.  The PHO under the Alberta legislation only provides advice.  For all we know, and what is likely, is that cabinet is ignoring the recommendations of their PHO as to what the best measures would be in order to cater to the "FREEDOM" core conservative support.  Here is the material part of the Alberta legislation:

Powers of Chief Medical Officer
14(1) The Chief Medical Officer
(a) shall, on behalf of the Minister, monitor the health of
Albertans and make recommendations to the Minister and
regional health authorities on measures to protect and
promote the health of the public and to prevent disease and
injury,
(b) shall act as a liaison between the Government and regional
health authorities, medical officers of health and executive
officers in the administration of this Act,
(c) shall monitor activities of regional health authorities,
medical officers of health and executive officers in the
administration of this Act, and
(d) may give directions to regional health authorities, medical
officers of health and executive officers in the exercise of
their powers and the carrying out of their responsibilities
under this Act.

Bottom line, your earlier characterization of all PHO's as being "semi-autonomous" was wrong.  In BC the PHO is completely autonomous but risks having that autonomy being taken away by an amendment to the legislation.  In Alberta the PHO is not autonomous at all - she is just an advisor and the minister may completely ignore that advice.

[Jacob]

Thanks for that CC. Interesting.

[viper37]

I believe Quebec is like Alberta, as in the PHO only advises the Premier, on most issues at least.

[crazy canuck]

I believe Quebec is like Alberta, as in the PHO only advises the Premier, on most issues at least.

I quickly skimmed it and looks very similar to BC.   I looks like the Quebec PHO has statutory authority to make the same sorts of orders our PHO does under section 106 of the Quebec Public Health Act.

You may be thinking about the powers the government also has after declaring a state of emergency - which is also similar to the framework in BC.

[viper37]

I believe Quebec is like Alberta, as in the PHO only advises the Premier, on most issues at least.

I quickly skimmed it and looks very similar to BC.   I looks like the Quebec PHO has statutory authority to make the same sorts of orders our PHO does under section 106 of the Quebec Public Health Act.

You may be thinking about the powers the government also has after declaring a state of emergency - which is also similar to the framework in BC.

Possible.

I recall a few newspiece discussing about how the PHO wanted to go either further or a tad different than the PMO and the PMO overruled the PHO.  In these two specific instances, the PMO went a bit further than what Dr Arruda's office recommended, like closing all the restaurants instead of limiting them to only 2 clients/table from the same familial unit.  And a couple of other times where there were practical considerations to gradually reopen part of the province while strictly speaking on covid it would have been better to keep everything closed.

I have not seen any mention of a rift between the PHO and the PMO though.

[crazy canuck]

I have not seen any mention of a rift between the PHO and the PMO though.

I think that is because your PHO, like ours has their own statutory powers of decision.  Interference by the politicians would be a very big deal and so unlikely.  But in Alberta political interference is WAD

[viper37]

I have not seen any mention of a rift between the PHO and the PMO though.

I think that is because your PHO, like ours has their own statutory powers of decision.  Interference by the politicians would be a very big deal and so unlikely.  But in Alberta political interference is WAD

The way it works, is, Arruda advises the PMO on the best possible course, the PMO decides how and if it follows up.  It never happened that there were major disagreements that we know of, but if there were, I don't think the PHO would have the authority to shut down all sectors of our economy.  They could and can order the closure of a single business, a school, govt building, etc, but I don't think they can order stay-at-home orders globally.

[Barrister]

So I'm half expecting a bunch of knives to come out for Jason Kenney this week, now that the Federal election is over.

[Barrister]

So I'm half expecting a bunch of knives to come out for Jason Kenney this week, now that the Federal election is over.

Incoming cabinet shuffle for 3:30.  Health Minister Shandro is out.

At least one UCP insider calling for Kenney's resignation - we'll see if there are more.

[Sheilbh]

Is there anyway for Cons to fix their vote inefficiency? Second election in a row they win more in the popular vote but are way behind on seats - and I'm assuming as conservatives there's no appetite for electoral reform

[Barrister]

Is there anyway for Cons to fix their vote inefficiency? Second election in a row they win more in the popular vote but are way behind on seats - and I'm assuming as conservatives there's no appetite for electoral reform

If I were a Conservative supporter (which I am not) I'd have little little appetite for electoral reform.  The majority of Canadians support progressive parties and have since, oh, 1988.  Now if those reactionary Conservatives can swindle 38-40% of Canadians then they can impose their neo-liberal policies on Canadians.  But under proportional representation they'll never get enough support to form government.

[Oexmelin]

Conservative vote is hugely concentrated in comparatively fewer ridings.

[Grey Fox]

Did you google the are we the baddies meme? And came to the correct conclusion that you were?