[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Malthus]

A Supreme Court judge - not a good idea, they really must be bilingual.

Cabinet minister or GG - could be monolingual Francophone.

[Jacob]

Have we had any monolingual anglophone Supreme Court judges in recent times?

[Zoupa]

Moldaver doesn't speak french, and he's currently on the Supreme Court. A bunch of others have really limited knowledge, certainly not enough to discuss law in any detail.

[Malthus]

Have we had any monolingual anglophone Supreme Court judges in recent times?

A single one, Moldaver, whose appointment was controversial for that reason.

I don't think it is a good idea - Supreme Court justices must be able to judge cases from Quebec, abs ideally should not require translators. However, hearings before a full panel of the Supreme Court are not common, so a single monolingual judge probably isn't too big a problem to work around. Ideally though, all should be bilingual. 

[crazy canuck]

Moldaver doesn't speak french, and he's currently on the Supreme Court. A bunch of others have really limited knowledge, certainly not enough to discuss law in any detail.

In recent times?

Which ones do you have in mind?

[viper37]

I was merely pointing out that your statement that the story would not register with the public because  the media would not talk much about it was not factually correct.

Making headline news in a mainstream publication like the Globe means the media is, in fact, talking about it.

All the major medias in English Canada talk about something, front page articles, editorials, columns: "Only 1 dumbass journalist raise the question, no big deal".
Exactly one front page article: "Public awareness is there, people are talking about it".
KInda weird philosophy there

[Zoupa]

Moldaver doesn't speak french, and he's currently on the Supreme Court. A bunch of others have really limited knowledge, certainly not enough to discuss law in any detail.

In recent times?

Which ones do you have in mind?

I'm talking about the current crop sitting now. Judges from Qc and I think 2 others are fluent. The rest couldn't hold a 10 minute conversation.

[Barrister]

Have we had any monolingual anglophone Supreme Court judges in recent times?

A single one, Moldaver, whose appointment was controversial for that reason.

I don't think it is a good idea - Supreme Court justices must be able to judge cases from Quebec, abs ideally should not require translators. However, hearings before a full panel of the Supreme Court are not common, so a single monolingual judge probably isn't too big a problem to work around. Ideally though, all should be bilingual.

I disagree.

When it comes to deciding cases based on Quebec Civil Law, the Quebec-based Justices invariable take the lead anyways - as they indeed should.

But to decide that all SCC Justices must speak French (which indeed is the custom, except for Moldaver), not only means that you are excluding roughly 80% of all candidates (based on overall census data, I can't find numbers based on lawyers/judges) - but you are necessarily biased in favour of candidates from the "Laurentian elite".


By the way, I had the privilege of attending in 2009 the Ontario Crown Prosecutor's "Crown School", where Moldaver (then of the Ont CA) spoke.  I have never man-crushed on a Justice before or since, but I man-crushed on him hard.

[Zoupa]

That 80% you mention is self-excluding by not learning the official language of the country despite wanting to serve on its highest court.

[Valmy]

I mean if you are in the running for the SCC surely you can watch French in Action, it is free, and do a little immersion and French practice. That doesn't cost much in either time or money and you probably took a little bit of it in school so it is not like you are learning from scratch or some language that doesn't share an enormous amount of vocabulary and grammar structure with English. Plus these people are smart, they probably can learn languages quickly. Plus I presume almost all the legal jargon is exactly the same.

So what is the problem? It is not like anybody expects these native English speaking judges to be equivalent to native speakers, just the ability to operate in a very limited context. I think Zoupa said they are just barely functional in French. Why is that such a freaking huge barrier BB? It makes no sense. It just tells me they are either lazy or stupid, and why would you want a lazy or stupid person on your Supreme Court?

[Barrister]

Plus I presume almost all the legal jargon is exactly the same.

I remember speaking with a judge who had a pretty decent conversational French, that the first time she tried to hear a french trial it was a whole different ballgame.

[Oexmelin]

Learning another language is a superhuman feat that only a small 4 billion people in the world have been able to achieve. Mere elite lawyers and judges stand no chance.

[Valmy]

Plus I presume almost all the legal jargon is exactly the same.

I remember speaking with a judge who had a pretty decent conversational French, that the first time she tried to hear a french trial it was a whole different ballgame.

Gotcha. As a STEM guy usually operating in other languages is pretty easy due to shared jargon and reliance on numbers...presuming it also uses Roman letters and Arabic numerals of course

But it is the exact same legal code with identical procedures yes?

[Barrister]

Plus I presume almost all the legal jargon is exactly the same.

I remember speaking with a judge who had a pretty decent conversational French, that the first time she tried to hear a french trial it was a whole different ballgame.

Gotcha. As a STEM guy usually operating in other languages is pretty easy due to shared jargon and reliance on numbers...presuming it also uses Roman letters and Arabic numerals of course

But it is the exact same legal code with identical procedures yes?

Okay, so I'm perhaps the wrong one to ask, because in Canada Criminal law is federal - it is the exact same law (the Criminal Code) and mostly the exact same procedures across the country.

But remember that Quebec has a whole different system of law - it has Napoleonic Civil Law, as opposed to the English Common Law in force in the rest fo the country.

[Oexmelin]

it has Napoleonic Civil Law

(Nitpick: the Lower Canada Civil Code of 1865, the predecessor to the current version, drew inspiration from the Napoleonic Code, but it also drew considerable inspiration directly from the Paris Coutume - much like the Napoleonic Code itself - as well as from elements of the practice of Civil Law, as it had evolved in the St. Lawrence Valley since 1760).