[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

We expect the usual non-Quebec pick to not actually speak french. It's nothing new. Pretty sure, it'll be fine.

I of course can not assess myself, but I read in a couple of places her level of French is even less than the usual anglophone "bilingual" candidates.

Probably. But most of us don't speak Inuktitut so will probably don't hang it on her. She learn english from Federal school/college. Once again, the Federal government is the one dropping the ball.

But that's it?  IS appointing Mary Simon an example of Trudeau "dropping the ball"?  I certainly don't fault Simon for not knowing French - but Trudeau is the one who appointed her.



Apparently she was considered by Harper for the appointment that ultimately when to Johnson.

[Grey Fox]

We expect the usual non-Quebec pick to not actually speak french. It's nothing new. Pretty sure, it'll be fine.

I of course can not assess myself, but I read in a couple of places her level of French is even less than the usual anglophone "bilingual" candidates.

Probably. But most of us don't speak Inuktitut so will probably don't hang it on her. She learn english from Federal school/college. Once again, the Federal government is the one dropping the ball.

But that's it?  IS appointing Mary Simon an example of Trudeau "dropping the ball"?  I certainly don't fault Simon for not knowing French - but Trudeau is the one who appointed her.

I would say no.

I won't be the one being outraged because politicians, even the figurehead ones, don't speak french before their appointment/election. We never mention it but Quebec's politicians(all levels) are really bad at english. They learn on the job & it is still usually disastrous.

Neo-con Canadian Jesus Stephen Harper did a really good job learning how to actually speak french & not just mumble words that sound like french. He is the gold standard. It's probably the historian in him (Read his book, it's cool).

[Barrister]

I would say no.

I won't be the one being outraged because politicians, even the figurehead ones, don't speak french before their appointment/election. We never mention it but Quebec's politicians(all levels) are really bad at english. They learn on the job & it is still usually disastrous.

Neo-con Canadian Jesus Stephen Harper did a really good job learning how to actually speak french & not just mumble words that sound like french. He is the gold standard. It's probably the historian in him (Read his book, it's cool).

I've shilled for Harper's hockey history book before.

And I can't think of any Quebec-based politician with any kind of national profile who I would say is bad at English, as opposed to just having a strong accent.  But given the near-ubiquity of English in world culture it's a very apples and oranges type of comparison.

[Grey Fox]

From another time : Denis Coderre.

[crazy canuck]

From another time : Denis Coderre.

Yep, add to the list Stephane Dion.

[Barrister]

From another time : Denis Coderre.

Yep, add to the list Stephane Dion.

I liked Dion, although he was a terrible leader and I'd never vote for him.

I put him in the "strong accent" category.

[Oexmelin]

We never mention it but Quebec's politicians(all levels) are really bad at english. They learn on the job & it is still usually disastrous.

I don't think they are. As BB said, their accent is more or less strong. I have a colleague with a remarkable command of English, and quite the extended vocabulary but who seems to make no effort at producing any sort of English accent. 

I think this is yet another case of us looking at okay English and thinking it terrible, whereas Anglos look at okay French and think it's amazing.

As for this specific case, I think you are right. I think members of First Nations get a pass re: language, and I don't imagine a strong reaction in this case. I am also old enough to remember Ray Hnatyshyn's "French".

[viper37]

We never mention it but Quebec's politicians(all levels) are really bad at english. They learn on the job & it is still usually disastrous.

The majority of them are allright.  Lucien Bouchard has a very decent english.  Parizeau had his Westmount accent.  Landry studied in London.

Pauline Marois was the exception, really.

And at the Federal level, you'd be hard pressed to find any unilingual French speakers outside of the Bloc Québécois.

Anyway.  As long as the GG isn't unilingual english, I won't be too bothered.  I can't blame the natives for being assimilated to an inferior language.
Ok, no, seriously, I'm ok, given everything touching the First Nations, it's a nice, albeit empty gesture.  I'd much prefered to have seen the tatoo girl having another mandate.  I think we need to see more of First Nations community members engaged in politics, no matter the party.  But I think they're sometimes so conditionned to seeing racism that they then see it everywhere, even when it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[crazy canuck]

The Minister of Finance has said that the implementation of taxation legislation which has received Royal Assent and has already been proclaimed into law will be delayed.

This may be a bit of inside baseball stuff, but for constitutional minded folks, this is astounding.  When Parliament passes legislation it become effective as of the date it receives Royal Assent unless Parliament has specified another date.

Cabinet cannot decide not to implement legislation.

And this is taxation legislation - normally a confidence vote in Parliament if a government bill is defeated.

[Oexmelin]

It's frankly dangerous - mostly because few people now "get" how institutions are supposed to work, and why they are supposed to work the way they do. We've been so much brainwashed into the managerial ethos that Parliament is seen, at best, as a mere formality to the formation of the government, and at worst, as an impediment to getting things done...

[Barrister]

The Minister of Finance has said that the implementation of taxation legislation which has received Royal Assent and has already been proclaimed into law will be delayed.

This may be a bit of inside baseball stuff, but for constitutional minded folks, this is astounding.  When Parliament passes legislation it become effective as of the date it receives Royal Assent unless Parliament has specified another date.

Cabinet cannot decide not to implement legislation.

And this is taxation legislation - normally a confidence vote in Parliament if a government bill is defeated.

If I recall correctly governments can pass legislation that only comes into effect when it's declared in effect by being published in the Gazette.  But otherwise yes the government of the day (in a minority no less) doesn't just get to decide to not implement legislation that's been passed and proclaimed.

[crazy canuck]

The Minister of Finance has said that the implementation of taxation legislation which has received Royal Assent and has already been proclaimed into law will be delayed.

This may be a bit of inside baseball stuff, but for constitutional minded folks, this is astounding.  When Parliament passes legislation it become effective as of the date it receives Royal Assent unless Parliament has specified another date.

Cabinet cannot decide not to implement legislation.

And this is taxation legislation - normally a confidence vote in Parliament if a government bill is defeated.

If I recall correctly governments can pass legislation that only comes into effect when it's declared in effect by being published in the Gazette.  But otherwise yes the government of the day (in a minority no less) doesn't just get to decide to not implement legislation that's been passed and proclaimed.

gazetting the legislation is a formality. 

[Barrister]

The Minister of Finance has said that the implementation of taxation legislation which has received Royal Assent and has already been proclaimed into law will be delayed.

This may be a bit of inside baseball stuff, but for constitutional minded folks, this is astounding.  When Parliament passes legislation it become effective as of the date it receives Royal Assent unless Parliament has specified another date.

Cabinet cannot decide not to implement legislation.

And this is taxation legislation - normally a confidence vote in Parliament if a government bill is defeated.

If I recall correctly governments can pass legislation that only comes into effect when it's declared in effect by being published in the Gazette.  But otherwise yes the government of the day (in a minority no less) doesn't just get to decide to not implement legislation that's been passed and proclaimed.

gazetting the legislation is a formality.

Of course.

But one a government can forego if they want to delay implementation.

[Jacob]

I don't think majority/ minority enters into it?

But yeah, not pleased with this. Has a reason or excuse been given? Or is it just "so we will do this later, okay?"

[crazy canuck]

I don't think majority/ minority enters into it?

But yeah, not pleased with this. Has a reason or excuse been given? Or is it just "so we will do this later, okay?"

Its a good question.  The context makes this worse. The legislation started as a Conservative MP private members bill.  It got enough support from the Liberal back benches that it passed.  It is designed to lessen the tax impact on small businesses when passing it on to the next generation.  The cabinet and the finance ministry did not like the legislation - but too bad, Parliament is the legislative body not cabinet. 

To Echo Oex's comments this will likely barely register on the public and that is perhaps the most scary part.  A fundamental part of how our democratic system is supposed to work just got brushed aside because the executive didn't like what the legislature did. 

But one a government can forego if they want to delay implementation.

Its funny I had drafted a line in my first post to make the point that a government cannot avoid the will of Parliament by the simple expedient of instructing the printer not to do their job.  But I guess these things need to be stated expressly.