[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Valmy]

The difference of course is that Quebec has enacted legislation which is contrary to the Charter and does disproportionately affect Muslims.  So Jacob, actually a fair question to have asked.

So if I go into Quebec and murder some Muslims, it is fair to suspect I did that due to Quebec laws? How much do English speaking Ontarians even know the specifics about the Quebec legal code to where that would be a fair assumption?

I mean if somebody from Quebec did this and was in favor of those laws then it would certainly be a fair assumption, I just don't see the fairness in this case.

[Zoupa]

One of the first questions to Justin Trudeau from journalists was "how does law 21 on laicity factor in to this tragedy". Same kind of questions to the leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

Kinda sad. Anglophones will go to any lengths to not look at their own racism. Somehow it's always someone else's fault.

From an Anglophone journalists? That's fucked up.

I have a pretty hard time seeing how Quebec laws (whatever problems I may have with them) are much of a factor for some Anglo guy carrying out a hate crime in Ontario.

Indeed. Anyways, hope they throw the book at this guy. Not sure what the possible solutions are to curb these kind of attacks. Maybe crazy-long sentencing can be a deterrent.

[Malthus]

No one is talking about the London (On) attacks?

I was surprised I did not see a column or editorial in the National Post or Globe&Mail about how all this is because of Ontarians racist attitudes toward "strangers" (as in, visibile minorities).  I'd sure thought they'd do the same as they usually do for Quebec.  I guess it'll be there tomorrow.

Last I read, they had reason to believe he killed them because they were Muslim. If that's true, it seems a bit early to whine about how people blame racists.

That poor kid

... for those not in the now, some guy deliberately drove his truck over a Muslim family, killing the mother, father, kids... leaving a nine year old boy as the only survivor.

Heh I think Viper's point is slightly different - as usual, he is using this tragedy to flog his favorite hobby horse, that the real crime here is how Quebec is portrayed in the media.

One of the first questions to Justin Trudeau from journalists was "how does law 21 on laicity factor in to this tragedy". Same kind of questions to the leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

Kinda sad. Anglophones will go to any lengths to not look at their own racism. Somehow it's always someone else's fault.

Asking such a question is bullshit, and an obvious attempt to rile people up. A terror attack in Ontario has nothing to do with anything happening in Quebec. I have no idea how Trudeau responded, but I hope he said a much.

Just as your generalization about anglophones is, likewise, bullshit. It's amazing that it isn't called out here more often. I guess it is just acceptable to make such offensive generalizations here, as long as you choose the right target. 

[Zoupa]

The difference of course is that Quebec has enacted legislation which is contrary to the Charter and does disproportionately affect Muslims.  So Jacob, actually a fair question to have asked.

So if I go into Quebec and murder some Muslims, it is fair to suspect I did that due to Quebec laws? How much do English speaking Ontarians even know the specifics about the Quebec legal code to where that would be a fair assumption?

I mean if somebody from Quebec did this and was in favor of those laws then it would certainly be a fair assumption, I just don't see the fairness in this case.

According to some Canadians, you can plow into a group of *insert non-white group here* with your car in Austin and blame Qc's law on laicity.

I did not know Qc legal code had such an overwhelming influence on the whole continent.

[Zoupa]

One of the first questions to Justin Trudeau from journalists was "how does law 21 on laicity factor in to this tragedy". Same kind of questions to the leader of the Bloc Quebecois.

Kinda sad. Anglophones will go to any lengths to not look at their own racism. Somehow it's always someone else's fault.

Asking such a question is bullshit, and an obvious attempt to rile people up. A terror attack in Ontario has nothing to do with anything happening in Quebec. I have no idea how Trudeau responded, but I hope he said a much.

Just as your generalization about anglophones is, likewise, bullshit. It's amazing that it isn't called out here more often. I guess it is just acceptable to make such offensive generalizations here, as long as you choose the right target.

"It wouldn't surprise me if in the weeks and months to come there would be some reflection on the purpose and importance of Bill 21, partly because we've spent a lot of time in masks covering our faces getting services from the state. And also because there is a real concern about the rise of intolerance and Islamophobia," Trudeau said.

So your hope that he said as much is dashed.

As for my generalization, yeah, you're right. That was not cool on my part, apologies. It gets tiresome to read and see qcbashing. How about Ontario journos ask the hard questions to Ford, Trudeau and the mayor of London instead of trying to get clicks by comforting their readership that it's all Qc's fault?

[viper37]

The difference of course is that Quebec has enacted legislation which is contrary to the Charter and does disproportionately affect Muslims.  So Jacob, actually a fair question to have asked.

It does affect religious radicals living in Quebec who wish to work in a position of authority and provide undue influence on moderates to follow their ways, yes.
But what has this to do with a crime commited in Ontario by an english speaking Ontarian?  Do you know of anyone in BC who now hates Muslims because of Quebec's bill 21?  Is it limited to Southern Ontario?  All of Ontario?  Is New Brunswick included too?

If I get you well, anti-french feelings in Canada, often expressed publicly (there's been a series of articles in the National Post, many by Conrad Black, and in the Globe&Mail too about Quebec wanting to be recognized as a nation and how evil that was - heck, even JWR showed her hand and disapointed me in proving that here previous stance was not anti-corruption so much as anti-Quebec; had SNC been an Ontarian company, she would have gotten along with the deal - are not a reflection of true English Canadian feelings toward its French minority, but some English dude committing an heinous crime in another province is proof positive that Quebec not discriminates against its minorities but influence racist acts in Canada, because, you know, there never was any racism in Canada before Quebec nationalism became a thing?  I have gotten it right?
It wouldn't surprised me, you know.  I've even learnt last week how Canada is this wonderful bilingual paradise from coast to coast with no problem whatsoever, except in Quebec, where we hate english speakers.  We probably steal and eat their babies too, but witchcraft is no longer as scary as it used to
So, everything is possible in that wonderful paradise of yours, I guess.
Beware the witches.   

[viper37]

Indeed. Anyways, hope they throw the book at this guy. Not sure what the possible solutions are to curb these kind of attacks. Maybe crazy-long sentencing can be a deterrent.

the only obvious solution is to send the army in Quebec, arrest every MPs and card carrying members of the CAQ, PQ and QS.  Only then shall Canada become pristing again.  Maybe establish reeducation camps for us poor sools who degrade Canada by our insistance to keep our culture.  I mean, kinda like the boarding schools for indegenous communities, but this time, only for white french speakers.  Just like for them, it will be for our own good.

[viper37]

Just as your generalization about anglophones is, likewise, bullshit. It's amazing that it isn't called out here more often. I guess it is just acceptable to make such offensive generalizations here, as long as you choose the right target.

is this anti-Quebec behaviour ever called out in Canada?  From memory... once or twice, maybe.  In 50 years.
3 different English Canadian journalists asked the same question, over&over until the PM explicitely said a Quebec law had nothing to do with what happens in Ontario.
It is true: Canada has always had a latent racism and always try to deflect it by targeting Quebec's laws.  Canadian bilinguism is English&French in Quebec, but English only everywhere there's less than 80% French speakers.
There were protests against bilinguims at Cornwall's hospitals.  Did English medias talked about it?  Nope.
Did CBC ever did lenghty reports about the rise of anti-French sentiment in New Brunswick characterized by the increase power wielded by a political party (part of the government) opposed to official bilinguism?  Nope.Did the Globe&Mail had lenghty column pages about the fights of French Canadians outside their province to get services in French, or even to get translated documents from the courts?  Not a peep.
Ah, but Quebec is truly evil!  They want to force immigrant children to attend French schools!  How terrible!  So much discrimination!  English Canadians are about to go the way of the dodo if we let this continue!
C'mon.  Be serious.

You never call that anti-French/anti-Quebec bullshit yourself, but you expect "moderation" from all of us.

[HVC]

Indeed. Anyways, hope they throw the book at this guy. Not sure what the possible solutions are to curb these kind of attacks. Maybe crazy-long sentencing can be a deterrent.

the only obvious solution is to send the army in Quebec, arrest every MPs and card carrying members of the CAQ, PQ and QS.  Only then shall Canada become pristing again.  Maybe establish reeducation camps for us poor sools who degrade Canada by our insistance to keep our culture.  I mean, kinda like the boarding schools for indegenous communities, but this time, only for white french speakers.  Just like for them, it will be for our own good.

What, you don't want to be interned with minority French speakers? Racist!

[crazy canuck]

The difference of course is that Quebec has enacted legislation which is contrary to the Charter and does disproportionately affect Muslims.  So Jacob, actually a fair question to have asked.

So if I go into Quebec and murder some Muslims, it is fair to suspect I did that due to Quebec laws? How much do English speaking Ontarians even know the specifics about the Quebec legal code to where that would be a fair assumption?

I mean if somebody from Quebec did this and was in favor of those laws then it would certainly be a fair assumption, I just don't see the fairness in this case.

If you went into Quebec and murdered a Muslim family (your minimization of what occurred is noted), since we know you are mentally competent, it would likely because of the culture of Islamophobia which surrounds you and which was a factor in the legislation passed in Quebec.

The attempts to ignore that fact in this thread is frankly sickening.

[crazy canuck]

It gets tiresome to read and see qcbashing.

When Quebec passes legislation which violates the Charter, it deserves to be bashed.  That is the tradeoff inherent in the Notwithstanding clause. Your lament is the same we hear from the right when they cry that criticism of their positions violates their freedom of speech.

[Grey Fox]

We don't have a culture of Islamophobia. We have a culture of religiophobia.

[crazy canuck]

We don't have a culture of Islamophobia. We have a culture of religiophobia.

That is why the law disproportionately affects those whose religion has face coverings.  Ya, right.  No issue there at all.

[Grey Fox]

Don't have a religion with face coverings then.

or better yet don't have a religion.

[Malthus]

So your hope that he said as much is dashed.

As for my generalization, yeah, you're right. That was not cool on my part, apologies. It gets tiresome to read and see qcbashing. How about Ontario journos ask the hard questions to Ford, Trudeau and the mayor of London instead of trying to get clicks by comforting their readership that it's all Qc's fault?

Fair points.

Though I think criticizing the recent use of the notwithstanding clause in ways that disproportionately affect religious minorities is worthy of quite a bit of critique - it is just misplaced in response to an act carried out in a different province.

This tragedy had as far as I know nothing whatever to do with Quebec.