[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Oexmelin]

That generous interpretation falls apart when put into the context of his anti-gay stance though.

[Malthus]

That generous interpretation falls apart when put into the context of his anti-gay stance though.

Hence the "...the way he phrased it intentionally bracketed the symbol of gay rights with those for Nazi and Communist tyranny" part.

I'm not making a generous interpretation here - I think he was, quite intentionally, implying that the advocates for gay rights are in the same category as Nazis and Communists.

[Valmy]

I'm not making a generous interpretation here - I think he was, quite intentionally, implying that the advocates for gay rights are in the same category as Nazis and Communists.

But only with regards to totalitarianism, not genocide. So it's ok.

[Malthus]

I'm not making a generous interpretation here - I think he was, quite intentionally, implying that the advocates for gay rights are in the same category as Nazis and Communists.

But only with regards to totalitarianism, not genocide. So it's ok.

They won't be death camps. They will be "camp" camps! They will be fabulous!

[Barrister]

What do think of this quote BB

"How do we defeat today's totalitarianism? You've got to think about the common characteristics. It doesn't matter whether it's a hammer and sickle for communism, or whether it's the swastika for Nazi Germany or whether it's a rainbow flag, the underlying thing is a hostility to individual freedoms," said some Alberta Conservative named Carpay.

John Carpay.  I know that guy from back in the day.

Quick googling suggests he already apologized for the comment.  There's a hint of a worthwhile comment there, but clearly equating a rainbow flag with a swastika is madness.  Not until the gays start murdering millions of people (which isn't going to happen, to be clear) can you even think of making such a comparison.

He apologized for making the comparison yes, but he seems to firmly believe that recognition of gay rights is wrong.  My question to you is how comfortable are you politically associating yourself with such people?

I'm fine with it.

Look - with the struggle for gay rights largely being over, we're now struggling with the fact that homosexuality is still generally condemned by traditional judeo-christian theology.  So how do we square gays rights to be free from discrimination, with certain branches of Christianity wanting to stay true to their beliefs.  It seems to me reasonable people can hold differing views on this topic.

But obviously others disagree - that anything that goes against gay rights is bigoted and vile.

[Oexmelin]

What other sins do you think it's fine to base descrimination upon?

[Syt]

So, Beeb, are you ok with discrimination if it's someone's sincerely held religious beliefs?

[Valmy]

I'm fine with it.

Look - with the struggle for gay rights largely being over, we're now struggling with the fact that homosexuality is still generally condemned by traditional judeo-christian theology.  So how do we square gays rights to be free from discrimination, with certain branches of Christianity wanting to stay true to their beliefs.  It seems to me reasonable people can hold differing views on this topic.

But obviously others disagree - that anything that goes against gay rights is bigoted and vile.

Christianity has never had a problem with both being true to their beliefs and obeying the law before. In fact the Bible very explicitly gives them an out to do so.

[Oexmelin]

I'm not making a generous interpretation here - I think he was, quite intentionally, implying that the advocates for gay rights are in the same category as Nazis and Communists.

Sorry, I misread your post.

[Malthus]

I'm not making a generous interpretation here - I think he was, quite intentionally, implying that the advocates for gay rights are in the same category as Nazis and Communists.

Sorry, I misread your post.

No problem.

[Malthus]

What do think of this quote BB

"How do we defeat today's totalitarianism? You've got to think about the common characteristics. It doesn't matter whether it's a hammer and sickle for communism, or whether it's the swastika for Nazi Germany or whether it's a rainbow flag, the underlying thing is a hostility to individual freedoms," said some Alberta Conservative named Carpay.

John Carpay.  I know that guy from back in the day.

Quick googling suggests he already apologized for the comment.  There's a hint of a worthwhile comment there, but clearly equating a rainbow flag with a swastika is madness.  Not until the gays start murdering millions of people (which isn't going to happen, to be clear) can you even think of making such a comparison.

He apologized for making the comparison yes, but he seems to firmly believe that recognition of gay rights is wrong.  My question to you is how comfortable are you politically associating yourself with such people?

I'm fine with it.

Look - with the struggle for gay rights largely being over, we're now struggling with the fact that homosexuality is still generally condemned by traditional judeo-christian theology.  So how do we square gays rights to be free from discrimination, with certain branches of Christianity wanting to stay true to their beliefs.  It seems to me reasonable people can hold differing views on this topic.

But obviously others disagree - that anything that goes against gay rights is bigoted and vile.

Hey, Jews had to get used to others eating pork. You guys can get used to others being gay. 

[Barrister]

What do think of this quote BB

"How do we defeat today's totalitarianism? You've got to think about the common characteristics. It doesn't matter whether it's a hammer and sickle for communism, or whether it's the swastika for Nazi Germany or whether it's a rainbow flag, the underlying thing is a hostility to individual freedoms," said some Alberta Conservative named Carpay.

John Carpay.  I know that guy from back in the day.

Quick googling suggests he already apologized for the comment.  There's a hint of a worthwhile comment there, but clearly equating a rainbow flag with a swastika is madness.  Not until the gays start murdering millions of people (which isn't going to happen, to be clear) can you even think of making such a comparison.

He apologized for making the comparison yes, but he seems to firmly believe that recognition of gay rights is wrong.  My question to you is how comfortable are you politically associating yourself with such people?

I'm fine with it.

Look - with the struggle for gay rights largely being over, we're now struggling with the fact that homosexuality is still generally condemned by traditional judeo-christian theology.  So how do we square gays rights to be free from discrimination, with certain branches of Christianity wanting to stay true to their beliefs.  It seems to me reasonable people can hold differing views on this topic.

But obviously others disagree - that anything that goes against gay rights is bigoted and vile.

Hey, Jews had to get used to others eating pork. You guys can get used to others being gay. 

But should a Jew be prosecuted for publishing the Torah's prohibition on eating pork?
Should a Jewish deli be required to cater a Eid al-Fitr celebration if asked?
Can jews open a school but require you to sign a declaration promising to keep kosher even outside of school hours if you attend?
Should observant jewish parents be notified if their child joins a barbecue after-school club?

[Valmy]

But should a Jew be prosecuted for publishing the Torah's prohibition on eating pork?

Are Christians being prosecuted for Publishing Biblical materials?

Should a Jewish deli be required to cater a Eid al-Fitr celebration if asked?

Only if they cater Eid al-Fitr celebrations for some people but not other people.

Can jews open a school but require you to sign a declaration promising to keep kosher even outside of school hours if you attend?

Are gays forcing people to adopt dietary standards?

Not even sure how a school could enforce such a thing. I mean a school could ask me to sign a declaration that I will tap dance every day at 6 but I am not sure such a contract would be enforceable.

Should observant jewish parents be notified if their child joins a barbecue after-school club?

I assume parents should be made aware their kids are staying after-school or they might be concerned when their kids are not at home when them to be

Besides BBQ is beef as any Texan knows

[Barrister]

But should a Jew be prosecuted for publishing the Torah's prohibition on eating pork?

Are Christians being prosecuted for Publishing Biblical materials?

SOmeone was taken to the Human Rights Commission for taking out an add which contained only some anti-gay quotes from the bible.

Should a Jewish deli be required to cater a Eid al-Fitr celebration if asked?

Only if they cater Eid al-Fitr celebrations for some people but not other people.

Obviously riffing on the cake stories.  So what if the deli does catering, frequently does bar mitzvahs, but when asked by a muslim group to cater for Eid al-Fitr they decline citing religion.

Can jews open a school but require you to sign a declaration promising to keep kosher even outside of school hours if you attend?

Are gays forcing people to adopt dietary standards?

Not even sure how a school could enforce such a thing. I mean a school could ask me to sign a declaration that I will tap dance every day at 6 but I am not sure such a contract would be enforceable.

This is riffing off a Christian school that wanted to open a law faculty.  It had students sign a pledge promising to abide by the traditional sexual morals - that is no sex outside of marriage (between a man and a woman).  The comments about enforceability is totally valid - I think there as some suggestion no one had ever been expelled under this provision.  But the highest court in this country said that was discriminatory.

Should observant jewish parents be notified if their child joins a barbecue after-school club?

I assume parents should be made aware their kids are staying after-school or they might be concerned when their kids are not at home when them to be

Besides BBQ is beef as any Texan knows

In it's own use of a social wedge issue the Alberta NDP passed legislation saying that if an underage student joined a GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance) that it is illegal to notify the parents.  And this one in particular really bugs me - as a parent I want to know what my kid is up to.  And I hate that it assumes parents are going to be bigots, and not supportive of their kids no matter what.


So, these are all tricky issues, and reasonable people can disagree just in what ways to accommodate both sides.  But when you insist that there is no conflict, because gays (or whatever group) rights against discrimination must prevail in every single instance, it can start to feel a little, well, totalitarian.

[garbon]

In it's own use of a social wedge issue the Alberta NDP passed legislation saying that if an underage student joined a GSA (Gay-Straight Alliance) that it is illegal to notify the parents.  And this one in particular really bugs me - as a parent I want to know what my kid is up to.  And I hate that it assumes parents are going to be bigots, and not supportive of their kids no matter what.

But it doesn't assume that. Unless Canadian school clubs are very different from American ones, parents don't get told every time their child joins a club.