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[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

Started by Josephus, March 22, 2011, 09:27:34 PM

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Barrister

Quote from: HVC on November 10, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
hey, it's not religious schools, it's protestants. the catholic elementary and high schools I went to covered sex ed pretty in depth.

in closing, literalists are the worst.

You know, I can't remember exactly what they taught us at my Jesuit high school.  All I can remember is that it was a big deal because they brought over girls from the Catholic all-girls school to be included in the class.  :blush:

But I know it's still a big deal for Catholic school boards in Alberta.  They of course do teach the basics of human sexuality, but want to include "the Church's perspective" on certain topics, specifically bringing up homosexuality and gender identity, in the new revision to common curriculum now going on.  The NDP has said "no way".

But what's the point of going to a catholic school if they have to teach everything absolutely identical as the public school does?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/eggen-catholic-sex-education-curriculum-1.4368378
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Jacob

Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
But what's the point of going to a catholic school if they have to teach everything absolutely identical as the public school does?

Family tradition, the uniforms, attending mass, religious instruction in addition to the mandatory curriculum, and the ability of the school to exclude undesirable students.

Jacob

Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Because human sexuality has been controversial for thousands of years, it's always been treated specially.

I don't think this is a true statement.

PRC

Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2017, 03:15:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Because human sexuality has been controversial for thousands of years, it's always been treated specially.

I don't think this is a true statement.

Definitely nothing controversial about sexuality for anyone who grew up on a farm.  For someone growing up in a repressive churchy & overbearing religious environment then sexuality is probably totally controversial. 

Valmy

Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
I think it would depend on exactly what was being objected to, and on what basis:

-"I want my female child to be illiterate so don't teach her to read.  That way she will be more willing to obey her future husband" is wildly objectionable.

-"please excuse my child from today's unit on the Syrian civil war.  We are Syrian refugees and it will almost certainly trigger my child's PTSD" is entirely appropriate.

"Don't teach science as it is the devil's lies. The earth is flat and was created by King George in 1752." Would that fly? :P
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Barrister

Quote from: PRC on November 10, 2017, 03:21:25 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2017, 03:15:20 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Because human sexuality has been controversial for thousands of years, it's always been treated specially.

I don't think this is a true statement.

Definitely nothing controversial about sexuality for anyone who grew up on a farm.  For someone growing up in a repressive churchy & overbearing religious environment then sexuality is probably totally controversial.

I didn't say "sex" was controversial.  The whole "penis goes into vaginas and that's how you get babies" has been well understood.

I said "human sexuality" has been controversial.  Who is allowed to sleep with whom.  Under what conditions.  Is consent required.  WHat about gay sex, or anal or oral - do they count as sex?
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Oexmelin

Then, there are few topics, with the possible exception of maths, which do not meet the criteria for controversial, especially if the scale used is thousands of years. By virtue of being an essential aspect of life, and thus, of life in society. But then again, so are most things which we nevertheless teach. I just can't fathom why sex ed. is somehow equated with invitation to debauchery.
Que le grand cric me croque !

Barrister

Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2017, 03:13:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
But what's the point of going to a catholic school if they have to teach everything absolutely identical as the public school does?

Family tradition, the uniforms, attending mass, religious instruction in addition to the mandatory curriculum, and the ability of the school to exclude undesirable students.

That's not what the Catholics say though.  They are very specific that being a Catholic school is supposed to mean more than going to mass and having a religion class - that catholic teachings and faith are supposed to be infused in all subjects.

Now I'm not Catholic.  I went to my Jesuit school because it had higher academic standards.  Other than that though I didn't really notice how English, Math or Science were any more infused with Catholicism than they had been at my public high school.  But they say that's very important to them.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Barrister

Quote from: Oexmelin on November 10, 2017, 03:42:22 PM
Then, there are few topics, with the possible exception of maths, which do not meet the criteria for controversial, especially if the scale used is thousands of years. By virtue of being an essential aspect of life, and thus, of life in society. But then again, so are most things which we nevertheless teach. I just can't fathom why sex ed. is somehow equated with invitation to debauchery.

From the CBC article I linked above:

QuoteBut the document also identifies several potential "problematic" areas where the curriculum could clash against church doctrine.

"We would be unable to teach any outcome requiring the promotion of homosexual relationships and/or lifestyles that are contrary to Church teaching," it says. "If the curriculum stipulates that we have to teach about 'gender' or 'gender identity' as disassociated from biological sex, then that would be problematic."
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

Monoriu

My entire sex education consisted of watching porn.  Schools and parents said nothing. 

mongers

'Honest question', why is Canadian politics so dull?
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
You know, I can't remember exactly what they taught us at my Jesuit high school.  All I can remember is that it was a big deal because they brought over girls from the Catholic all-girls school to be included in the class.  :blush:

That's an interesting way to deliver an object lesson.  :lol:

Malthus

Quote from: mongers on November 10, 2017, 03:52:45 PM
'Honest question', why is Canadian politics so dull?

Every day, I am thankful that it is.

South of the border, with Trump and the Republicans, politics are exciting. In the UK, with Brexit, politics are exciting. Here in Canada, they are dull, focused on small issues of concern only to locals.

Long may politics in Canada remain dull!
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

HVC

#10768
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 03:44:30 PM
Quote from: Jacob on November 10, 2017, 03:13:58 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 03:05:00 PM
But what's the point of going to a catholic school if they have to teach everything absolutely identical as the public school does?

Family tradition, the uniforms, attending mass, religious instruction in addition to the mandatory curriculum, and the ability of the school to exclude undesirable students.

That's not what the Catholics say though.  They are very specific that being a Catholic school is supposed to mean more than going to mass and having a religion class - that catholic teachings and faith are supposed to be infused in all subjects.

Now I'm not Catholic.  I went to my Jesuit school because it had higher academic standards.  Other than that though I didn't really notice how English, Math or Science were any more infused with Catholicism than they had been at my public high school.  But they say that's very important to them.


infused in the subjects is overly broad. I went to 4 elementary school and 2 high schools, all catholic. We had catholic class, and mass once a month. But in science class we weren't taught differently then any public school (ie creationism was not taught in science class, but was mentioned in religion, but even then not really as a viable alternative, just that it was out there).

Actually, now that I think about it, in science class we had a whole thing on the scopes monkey trial and how foolish it was. We had crosses everywhere, a morning prayer along with the anthem, and uniforms once in high school, so religion was there, but it never got in the way, if that makes sense.
Being lazy is bad; unless you still get what you want, then it's called "patience".
Hubris must be punished. Severely.

crazy canuck

Quote from: HVC on November 10, 2017, 02:55:08 PM
Quote from: crazy canuck on November 10, 2017, 02:30:59 PM
Quote from: Barrister on November 10, 2017, 02:24:40 PM
Because human sexuality has been controversial for thousands of years, it's always been treated specially.  My understanding is that it is part of the common curriculum, but has always been an opt out.

The opt out is on religious grounds.  The subject matter is very straight forward and well understood. The only thing that makes it controversial is that, for religious reasons, some parents choose to keep their kids ignorant about how their body's sexual organs work and the risks associated with that function. 

hey, it's not religious schools, it's protestants. the catholic elementary and high schools I went to covered sex ed pretty in depth.

in closing, literalists are the worst.

It is not the schools that opt out.  It is the parents that opt to remove their children from the instruction.