[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[viper37]

Presumably there is absolutely no reason for Trudeau to visit a mosque knowing that its leader has terrorist connections?  I just can't see how he can benefit from that.

The answer is that he likely doesn't have any, or if he does, they are very tangential; and in any event, it is unlikely that Trudeau knew about it in advance. This is a smear by association.

you mean as a Prime Minister of Canada, with all the resources at his disposal he still has no clue whom he's going to meet in advance?  Wow.  And people voted for that moron??

Wow, you want the government of Canada to expend its resources to try to reduce the chances people will jump to illogical conclusions?  I can think of much better uses for my tax dollars 

I want the Prime Minister to be careful about whom he associates with.  Don't you?

[Malthus]

This discussion reminds me of my time in Vancouver.  I kept hearing the phrase "multi-culturalism" in the news and in debates.  That's new to me.  I told my parents, that's just euphemism on whether they consider us immigrants a net gain for the Canadian GDP, or want to kick us out, right? 

Not really. 
There are two things a true Canadians fear:
1) Being mistaken for an American
2) Seeing Quebec of the French language progress from the threshold of death.

Multi-culturalism offers a convenient way to solve both problems at once.  By claiming you accept every culture as equal, you can easily discard any demands by one of the founding nation (according to John A. McDonald, a Conservative, sworn ennemy of the Liberals) to have their rights respected since the rights of a fundamentalist muslim must be equally important.
By claiming you are a multi-cultural nation, with respect to all cultures, you differentiate yourself, theoritically, from the American melting pot where each culture is assimilated into the greater american culture.

surprised that Canadians spent so much time worrying about us. 

When was the last time in history a horde of Asians started migrating to western countries?  Ghenghis Khan?  Attila the Hun?  Of course they worry!

Is "respecting rights" some sort of zero-sum game to you - that there is only so much "respect" to go around, and so any given to (say) Muslims must somehow have been stolen from you? 

[viper37]

Is "respecting rights" some sort of zero-sum game to you - that there is only so much "respect" to go around, and so any given to (say) Muslims must somehow have been stolen from you? 

no, but it's often invoked as such.  French does not need protection (hence bilinguism is unecessary) because we do not translate our documents in Arab or Chinese.

[Josephus]

Presumably there is absolutely no reason for Trudeau to visit a mosque knowing that its leader has terrorist connections?  I just can't see how he can benefit from that.

The answer is that he likely doesn't have any, or if he does, they are very tangential; and in any event, it is unlikely that Trudeau knew about it in advance. This is a smear by association.

you mean as a Prime Minister of Canada, with all the resources at his disposal he still has no clue whom he's going to meet in advance?  Wow.  And people voted for that moron??

Wow, you want the government of Canada to expend its resources to try to reduce the chances people will jump to illogical conclusions?  I can think of much better uses for my tax dollars 

It's the sort of thing our previous government frequently spent money on

[viper37]

As predicted by yours truly, the Feds are up to their old tricks under the Libs.  They've already announced a cut of 50% in provincial transfers for healthcare&education and now they're threatening to cut Quebec even more because of past accessory fees (fees that doctors charge for extra services, like medication prodived in their clinic or operations done in their clinic).  These fees apparently contradict the Federal health law, a law Quebec never recognized.  These fees have existed for the last 40 years and they never were a problem.  But now, the Federal health minister wants to make an issue of it.

War on Quebec, once more.  Like the good old times under every Liberal government since 1867

[HVC]

Is Quebec still getting more than they put in?

[viper37]

Is Quebec still getting more than they put in?

Since we decided to raise on own taxes to avoid getting cheated by Canada, yes.

If you want to change the rules that no province should ever get more than they send to Ottawa, that's fine by me, but make it an official rule for all provinces under all circumstances.

[HVC]

How does increasing your taxes mean that you get more from the Feds then you put in?

My point was that it seems odd to complain that you're getting less fed money, while still getting more then you put in and saying this is an attack on Quebec. The other provinces are still subsidizing you.

[Malthus]

Is Quebec still getting more than they put in?

That doesn't matter.

What matters is that Viper feels betrayed, betrayed I tell you. And by the Liberals, no less.

Who would have ever guessed that could happen? 

[HVC]

Well true. The libs could offer sovereignty to Quebec on a silver platter and he'd reject it because he would be 100 percent sure it was a trick or some deep insult tied to an occurance from 200 years ago

[Drakken]

As predicted by yours truly, the Feds are up to their old tricks under the Libs.  They've already announced a cut of 50% in provincial transfers for healthcare&education and now they're threatening to cut Quebec even more because of past accessory fees (fees that doctors charge for extra services, like medication prodived in their clinic or operations done in their clinic).  These fees apparently contradict the Federal health law, a law Quebec never recognized.  These fees have existed for the last 40 years and they never were a problem.  But now, the Federal health minister wants to make an issue of it.

War on Quebec, once more.  Like the good old times under every Liberal government since 1867

That Quebec does not recognize that law, however you frame it, does not make the law any more binding. It is not a legal defence, it is pure rhetoric. I find it very normal, on the contrary, that money granted for a given portfolio is to be used in that portfolio to help ensure that Healthcare and Education remains on-par with the rest of Canada, which is among the basic conditions for any perequation or provincial transfer.

The sobering reality, right now, is that Quebec's mismanagement of its budget in Public Health and Public Education are starting to become political eyesores. Grade schools in shambles, constant lack of investment in basic school infrastructures, and the bickering and antagonistic behaviour of physician representative bodies with its rhetoric of blackmailing of both the government and the public to keep its privileges, etc. Logically, yes, if they do not shape up it should be be cut. Whether in Quebec, in PEI, or in Alberta.

How ironic you bring that argument, now, since Quebec is now finally applying the letter of its own Public Health Law by finally enforcing that privately-charged extras for services covered by said public health are really illegal. Because yes, for our Canuck neighbours, FYI a lot of doctors really where charging patients, sometimes up to hundreds of dollars, for things usually covered by using the Sun-card like eyedrops, taking and processing bodily samples, and filling legal forms linked health services. And that money was kept in their pockets as Administrative fees.

[viper37]

How does increasing your taxes mean that you get more from the Feds then you put in?

Prior to Duplessis' move, we had the same system as the rest of Canada, the Feds were collecting our taxes and giving us back our "fair" share.  It so happens that we got screwed, many times over (we did pay for Upper Canada's debt with the Act of Union after all and the St-Lawrence seaway was made to benefit Ontario) and were never receiving our fair share.

So, Duplessis created the provincial tax, forcing the Feds to back off.  From then on, we started getting more money than we sent, instead of the opposite.

My point was that it seems odd to complain that you're getting less fed money, while still getting more then you put in and saying this is an attack on Quebec. The other provinces are still subsidizing you.

Lots of provinces are subsidized.  If you want a fair deal, the Feds will stop collecting taxes and the provinces will simply give back a share of their GDP.  End of problems, fair deal for everyone.  You guys have the majority in this country, shouldn't be too hard to make it happen.

[viper37]

As predicted by yours truly, the Feds are up to their old tricks under the Libs.  They've already announced a cut of 50% in provincial transfers for healthcare&education and now they're threatening to cut Quebec even more because of past accessory fees (fees that doctors charge for extra services, like medication prodived in their clinic or operations done in their clinic).  These fees apparently contradict the Federal health law, a law Quebec never recognized.  These fees have existed for the last 40 years and they never were a problem.  But now, the Federal health minister wants to make an issue of it.

War on Quebec, once more.  Like the good old times under every Liberal government since 1867

That Quebec does not recognize that law, however you frame it, does not make the law any more binding. It is not a legal defence, it is pure rhetoric. I find it very normal, on the contrary, that money granted for a given portfolio is to be used in that portfolio to help ensure that Healthcare and Education remains on-par with the rest of Canada, which is among the basic conditions for any perequation or provincial transfer.

There is no such provision for equalization payment, only transfer payments and even then, it's tenuous as it is hard to really prove where they money really went.  If a province were to spend less in healthcare&education than they receive from the Feds, you would have an argument.

Not recognizing the law means it can be challenged in court as it potentially violate other parts of the Constitution.
So far, there has been no negative impacts from being subjected to the law for Quebec.  Again, it's a matter of surrendering your sovereignty.  For English Canadians, it's not a problem, they're rather still be a British Colony than an independant nation, so provincial autonomy is still decades away for them


The sobering reality, right now, is that Quebec's mismanagement of its budget in Public Health and Public Education are starting to become political eyesores. Grade schools in shambles, constant lack of investment in basic school infrastructures, and the bickering and antagonistic behaviour of physician representative bodies with its rhetoric of blackmailing of both the government and the public to keep its privileges, etc. Logically, yes, if they do not shape up it should be be cut. Whether in Quebec, in PEI, or in Alberta.

I don't deny there is mismanagement of public funds in Quebec and in Canada.  I have never denied it, I have always pushed for fiscally responsible parties, like the Conservatives of the now defunct ADQ.

It does not change the fact that the Liberals are trying, again, to screw us, so they can invest more money elsewhere in Canada.  Look closely, soon, they will bail out Newfoundland from their horrible Musket Falls deal and send us the bill.

How ironic you bring that argument, now, since Quebec is now finally applying the letter of its own Public Health Law by finally enforcing that privately-charged extras for services covered by said public health are really illegal. Because yes, for our Canuck neighbours, FYI a lot of doctors really where charging patients, sometimes up to hundreds of dollars, for things usually covered by using the Sun-card like eyedrops, taking and processing bodily samples, and filling legal forms linked health services. And that money was kept in their pockets as Administrative fees.

Filling legal forms for your insurance has never been covered.  Lots of things aren't covered by the Public health law since the doctors weren't technically paid for it.

In any case, Barette will simply increase the doctor's wages, again, now that they have to assume the fees, or transfer some medical acts to hospitals instead so the doctors won't assume the fees.

[Grey Fox]

I disagree, the fees were always a problem.

[dps]

How does increasing your taxes mean that you get more from the Feds then you put in?

Prior to Duplessis' move, we had the same system as the rest of Canada, the Feds were collecting our taxes and giving us back our "fair" share.  It so happens that we got screwed, many times over (we did pay for Upper Canada's debt with the Act of Union after all and the St-Lawrence seaway was made to benefit Ontario) and were never receiving our fair share.

So, Duplessis created the provincial tax, forcing the Feds to back off.  From then on, we started getting more money than we sent, instead of the opposite.

My point was that it seems odd to complain that you're getting less fed money, while still getting more then you put in and saying this is an attack on Quebec. The other provinces are still subsidizing you.

Lots of provinces are subsidized.  If you want a fair deal, the Feds will stop collecting taxes and the provinces will simply give back a share of their GDP.  End of problems, fair deal for everyone.  You guys have the majority in this country, shouldn't be too hard to make it happen.

People of Portuguese descent are a majority in Canada?