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[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

Started by Josephus, March 22, 2011, 09:27:34 PM

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Malthus

Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2011, 05:10:00 PM
On two political points and one superficial one, Harper earns my opposition.

Superficially, the stupid "Iggy went to the US for a while and he doesn't care about YOU" advertisements that the Conservatives have been running all over the place on TV (like during the superbowl) are just obnoxious.

Those were indeed beyond stupid. They would have done better with a guy in a clown suit holding up a sign reading "This is an attack ad".  :D That would at least have been funny.

QuotePolitically, I keep picking up little bits of more radical right Conservatism when it comes to women's rights etc; they've made abortion an issue with foreign aid and there's been other bits like that. That makes me quite suspicious of their hidden agenda; I don't want any evangelical flavoured social conservatism, thank you very much. That's just a suspicion, though, and something to be weighed with all the other things.

However, the Harper government's "streamlining immigration" has seriously and directly harmed my family. My recent rightward drift towards small c conservatism/ pragmatic business oriented small l liberalism hasn't really stopped - I got a house, I'm getting older and crankier - but because of this I can basically never ever support the Conservative Party of Canada. I'll probably start donating money to the various opposition parties.

The NDP? I'm not fond of the granola fringe at all, but fine. The Liberals? Sure why not. The BQ? Yeah, I don't mind. The Green Party? We'll I'm sure they'd be crazy, but fine. A coalition? Be my guest. As long as Harper gets the boot, I'll be content.

Sadly, from this thread it doesn't sound likely.

Tell me more about "streamlining immigration". This hasn't pinged my radar yet - what measures have they taken?
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Admiral Yi

What's the basis for the attack ad? 

Maximus

I love the constant "hidden agenda" element in Canadian politics.

"The Conservatives have a hidden agenda!!!11"

"What agenda is that?"

"I don't know, duh, it's hidden."

:lol:

viper37

Quote from: Valmy on March 23, 2011, 03:40:22 PM
Um my question is why are they socialist not whether or not you various lettowists feel victimized.
oh that. I don't know enough about the other nationalist parties out there.

With the Bloc, you need an history lesson :)

the seperatist movement originate from the 60s, with radical communists at its core.  The Parti Québécois was founded by a moderate leftist, René Lévesque, and those who could accept that we were not at war with capitalism.
However, many of these people still surround the party.

In the 90s, when the Bloc was founded, it was a decent party.  But after its leader left for the provincial scene, Duceppe took control after a well planned putsch (similarly, something like that happenned with the PQ 15 years earlier).  Duceppe is hard core communist, old school.  Founder of maoist party.  Over the years, he managed to impose his vision on the party and bring a legion of loyal supporters with communist tendancies as well as pushing out the undesirable (anyone to the right of Staline).  Lots of good people were thrown out.

His radicalism simply increased tenfold with the arrival of the Conservative party.  He's now a bloody fanatic, supporting other fanatics.  He completely lost it after Harper was first elected.  A Canadian Prime Minister solving Quebec's problems one at a time, insisting that his Ministers learn French, himself speaking French first&foremost in all public speech, that sends the message that there is hope for Quebec in this country.  You can't have that if you want to hold a job as a seperatist leader.

That's like Libya.  Imagine if Kadhaffi was a reasonable men ready to compromise?  What would rebels do?  Pack their bags and go home?
Ain't gonna happen to Duceppe.  So he needs the Libs in place, to stimulate confrontation, to put Quebec in a difficult economic position, to burden us with more taxes, so he can claim we are oppressed by ev!l capitalism from those filthy western cowboys.
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

viper37

Quote from: Malthus on March 23, 2011, 06:30:14 PM
Those were indeed beyond stupid. They would have done better with a guy in a clown suit holding up a sign reading "This is an attack ad".  :D That would at least have been funny.
Funny.  Most political commentators thought this would strike home with the Canadian public.  It really had no effect here.  Canadian working abroad or American living in Canada, he's a stranger to Quebec.
I don't do meditation.<br />I drink alcohol to relax, like normal people.

If Microsoft Excel decided to stop working overnight, the world would practically end.

Jacob

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2011, 06:32:29 PM
What's the basis for the attack ad?

My summary was pretty accurate. It went something like this:

Iggy went to the US, outside of Canada. Here's an out of context quote to make him say that Canada sucks compared to the US. Now he came back and he thinks he's better than you but he's not like you. He's an elitist.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Josephus on March 23, 2011, 04:41:55 PM
He wanted an increase in the GIS worth $700 million. He got a rather watered down version of that.

I didnt get all the money I wanted so I am going to force an election.  Really?



QuoteHe wanted doubling of the CPP benefit.
He got nothing.

And he knew that was a non starter.  What goverment in its right mind would follow down the same path that has brought Greece et al to financial ruin.  This is one of those policies that guarrantees I will never vote NDP.


QuoteHe wanted ending the federal sales tax on home heating fuels and restoring the home energy retrofit tax incentive, he got only the latter.

Again with the "I didnt get everything I wanted syndrom"

QuoteHe wanted to see money spent on training and hiring 1200 new doctors and 6,000 nurses. He got none of that, just $9 million against student debt for physicians and nurses who practise in remote communites. Not the same thing.

LIke Layton has a magic wand that will solve all health care issues in this country.  Give me a break.  More of the I didnt get everything I wanted although in this case Layton didnt really know what he wanted. 



QuoteSo, I think you need to redefine what you mean by "a lot."

No, actually I dont.  He got a lot of social spending out of this budget.  Rather than trumpet that fact and make himself look like a a politician who could get things done and lend some credibility to his party he blew it. 

Quotethe Cons gave him nothing that would make him switch sides and support the government. Just bones.
He asked for those things and only got a small chunk of it.

What a terrible rationale for forcing an election in which your party is going to lose seats.  Not that I am complaining too much.  Chances are the conservatives will finally win a majority and we can forget about the threat of the NDP trying to influence any policy in this country.

They can go back to heckling in the back rows as is their customary place.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

Admiral Yi

Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2011, 06:58:47 PM
My summary was pretty accurate. It went something like this:

Iggy went to the US, outside of Canada. Here's an out of context quote to make him say that Canada sucks compared to the US. Now he came back and he thinks he's better than you but he's not like you. He's an elitist.
Like a day trip?  :huh:

I figured from the ad he might have done a six month stretch at some comfy think tank.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Maximus on March 23, 2011, 06:42:41 PM
I love the constant "hidden agenda" element in Canadian politics.

"The Conservatives have a hidden agenda!!!11"

"What agenda is that?"

"I don't know, duh, it's hidden."

:lol:

Yeah, pretty weak stuff.  Its about as credible as urban legends. 
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

crazy canuck

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2011, 07:01:38 PM
Quote from: Jacob on March 23, 2011, 06:58:47 PM
My summary was pretty accurate. It went something like this:

Iggy went to the US, outside of Canada. Here's an out of context quote to make him say that Canada sucks compared to the US. Now he came back and he thinks he's better than you but he's not like you. He's an elitist.
Like a day trip?  :huh:

I figured from the ad he might have done a six month stretch at some comfy think tank.

He has spent most of his professional career outside the country.  He does come across as an elitists prud just as Harper comes across as a guy who doesnt know how to smile properly.  Both parties attack the other's leader based on those personality weaknesses.  Its just that Jacob notices the Conservative adds more since the Liberals have very little money with which to run their attack adds

If Jacobs real beef is that the conservatives are running attack adds then he should vote for the party that runs no attack adds.  I think he will find himself without a vote.
I want you to panic

https://www.theguardian.com/science/video/2019/jan/25/i-want-you-to-panic-16-year-old-greta-thunberg-issues-climate-warning-at-davos-video

"Woke" is now almost exclusively used by those who seek to deride it, those who chafe at the activism from which it sprang. Opponents to the idea are seeking to render it toxic. They use it to stand in for change itself, for evolution, for an accurate assessment of history and society that makes them uncomfortable and deflates their hagiographic view of American history.

Jacob

Quote from: Malthus on March 23, 2011, 06:30:14 PMTell me more about "streamlining immigration". This hasn't pinged my radar yet - what measures have they taken?

They've done some shuffling of bureaucratic functions and have re-allocated immigrationvisas amongst the different categories. It's not particularly high profile, but the upshot is nonetheless significant for the people affected.

We've started the process to have my in-laws immigrate to Canada. Previously, the expected processing time was about six years (most of which is the application lying in a pile waiting to be looked at). With the recent changes under the Harper Government, the expected processing time is now 13 years.

I would like the kids we're having to grow up with their grandparents around, but this "streamlining" (which as I understand it is just "all the resources for people with lots of money who want to immigrate, none for anyone else") prevents that.

Jacob

Quote from: Maximus on March 23, 2011, 06:42:41 PM
I love the constant "hidden agenda" element in Canadian politics.

"The Conservatives have a hidden agenda!!!11"

"What agenda is that?"

"I don't know, duh, it's hidden."

:lol:

Well it's not hidden. It's right there with the strategists and advisors they've hired, it's expressed in things that fly under the radar (like the foreign aid bits, aiming to restrict access to abortions; and the immigration "streamlining") - it's just that it's "a beginning", not the full agenda.

Grey Fox

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2011, 07:01:18 PM
Quote from: Josephus on March 23, 2011, 04:41:55 PM
He wanted an increase in the GIS worth $700 million. He got a rather watered down version of that.

I didnt get all the money I wanted so I am going to force an election.  Really?



QuoteHe wanted doubling of the CPP benefit.
He got nothing.

And he knew that was a non starter.  What goverment in its right mind would follow down the same path that has brought Greece et al to financial ruin.  This is one of those policies that guarrantees I will never vote NDP.


QuoteHe wanted ending the federal sales tax on home heating fuels and restoring the home energy retrofit tax incentive, he got only the latter.

Again with the "I didnt get everything I wanted syndrom"

QuoteHe wanted to see money spent on training and hiring 1200 new doctors and 6,000 nurses. He got none of that, just $9 million against student debt for physicians and nurses who practise in remote communites. Not the same thing.

LIke Layton has a magic wand that will solve all health care issues in this country.  Give me a break.  More of the I didnt get everything I wanted although in this case Layton didnt really know what he wanted. 



QuoteSo, I think you need to redefine what you mean by "a lot."

No, actually I dont.  He got a lot of social spending out of this budget.  Rather than trumpet that fact and make himself look like a a politician who could get things done and lend some credibility to his party he blew it. 

Quotethe Cons gave him nothing that would make him switch sides and support the government. Just bones.
He asked for those things and only got a small chunk of it.

What a terrible rationale for forcing an election in which your party is going to lose seats.  Not that I am complaining too much.  Chances are the conservatives will finally win a majority and we can forget about the threat of the NDP trying to influence any policy in this country.

They can go back to heckling in the back rows as is their customary place.


He's the leader of an opposition party, that's what he's suppose to do. If Harper wants to in power, he should bend.
Colonel Caliga is Awesome.

Jacob

Quote from: Admiral Yi on March 23, 2011, 07:01:38 PM
Like a day trip?  :huh:

I figured from the ad he might have done a six month stretch at some comfy think tank.

Nah, he was an academic in the US for years. You know, he had some career and academic success and went to where the best opportunities were. According to the attack ad, that makes him suspect.

Jacob

Quote from: crazy canuck on March 23, 2011, 07:07:28 PMIf Jacobs real beef is that the conservatives are running attack adds then he should vote for the party that runs no attack adds.  I think he will find himself without a vote.

That's not my beef. My beef is that the ad was insipid and that it was everywhere. It was annoying.

I don't have a vote anyhow, not a citizen  :P