[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

So it looks very much like we're going to get a separation referendum anyways.

At the same time as the pro-separation referendum was gathering signatures, there was also a pre-Canada referendum.  The questions was in favour of remaining in Canada.

So the pro-separation referendum was put on hold by a judicial decision.  So now they're going to still hold a referendum based on the pro-Canada question (because if you vote "no" you're presumably in favour of separation).

It's all just so stupid.

To add to the stupidity, the Chair of the legislative committee considering the issue sent out a press release announcing the decision before the decision had been made by the committee.

[Barrister]

Seems like common sense to have a nonpartisan institution be the one deciding electoral boundaries, surprised it's even a possibility 

Because "nonpartisan" is almost impossible in real life.  Everyone has political biases and opinions.  If someone is well and truly indifferent between who wins any given election that person is a moron - not non-partisan.

Now you can see what Alberta tried to do.  There's a 5 member commission.  2 members appointed on recommendation of the government.  2 members recommended by the opposition.  And the chairperson who is a retired judge, university President, or the like.  Hopefully those 5 will work together to come to a consensus.  But that didn't happen this time.

Nonsense. There have been a number of electoral boundary commissions in this province which everybody has recognized as being completely non-partisan.

Electoral boundary commissions in Alberta have generally been considered fine as well - until now.

Looking at BC's Act:

2   (1)The Lieutenant Governor in Council must, as required by this Act, appoint an Electoral Boundaries Commission consisting of

(a)a judge or a retired judge of the Supreme Court or the Court of Appeal who is nominated by the Lieutenant Governor in Council,

(b)a person who is not a member of the Legislative Assembly or an employee of the government and who is nominated by the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, after consultation with the Premier and the Leader of the Official Opposition, and

(c)the chief electoral officer appointed under the Election Act.

Quite frankly there's more opportunity for malice in this scheme.  Lieutenant Governor in Council is of course the government.  So government gets to appoint two out of three members - and may well appoint the Chief Electoral Officer as well (term is two elections plus one year).

[Valmy]

Because "nonpartisan" is almost impossible in real life.  Everyone has political biases and opinions.  If someone is well and truly indifferent between who wins any given election that person is a moron - not non-partisan.

Really? If you were hired to draw electoral boundaries in Uzbekistan based on some criteria you would be unable to do so without your large bias towards...what? A bunch of parties you have never heard of? You couldn't be unbiased in that scenario?

I am just saying not everybody has a strong political bias, at least not necessarily one that would play out in every scenario.

Besides even if you did really like one of the Uzbek political parties, without having access to voter records or intimate local knowledge of where their voters even are, it would be hard to really gerrymander it.

[Barrister]

Because "nonpartisan" is almost impossible in real life.  Everyone has political biases and opinions.  If someone is well and truly indifferent between who wins any given election that person is a moron - not non-partisan.

Really? If you were hired to draw electoral boundaries in Uzbekistan based on some criteria you would be unable to do so without your large bias towards...what? A bunch of parties you have never heard of? You couldn't be unbiased in that scenario?

I am just saying not everybody has a strong political bias, at least not necessarily one that would play out in every scenario.

Besides even if you did really like one of the Uzbek political parties, without having access to voter records or intimate local knowledge of where their voters even are, it would be hard to really gerrymander it.

My complete ignorance of Uzbek culture, history and customs would make me quite unsuitable to draw any boundaries for Uzbekistan.  I'd probably be missing out on some kind of important tribal divisions that would otherwise be super-important.

And besides - given that it's an authoritarian post-soviet state I would be biased towards more democratic and western-focused parties to the extent any exist.

[crazy canuck]

Seems like common sense to have a nonpartisan institution be the one deciding electoral boundaries, surprised it's even a possibility 

Because "nonpartisan" is almost impossible in real life.  Everyone has political biases and opinions.  If someone is well and truly indifferent between who wins any given election that person is a moron - not non-partisan.

Now you can see what Alberta tried to do.  There's a 5 member commission.  2 members appointed on recommendation of the government.  2 members recommended by the opposition.  And the chairperson who is a retired judge, university President, or the like.  Hopefully those 5 will work together to come to a consensus.  But that didn't happen this time.

Nonsense. There have been a number of electoral boundary commissions in this province which everybody has recognized as being completely non-partisan.

Electoral boundary commissions in Alberta have generally been considered fine as well - until now.

Looking at BC's Act:

2   (1)The Lieutenant Governor in Council must, as required by this Act, appoint an Electoral Boundaries Commission consisting of

(a)a judge or a retired judge of the Supreme Court or the Court of Appeal who is nominated by the Lieutenant Governor in Council,

(b)a person who is not a member of the Legislative Assembly or an employee of the government and who is nominated by the Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, after consultation with the Premier and the Leader of the Official Opposition, and

(c)the chief electoral officer appointed under the Election Act.

Quite frankly there's more opportunity for malice in this scheme.  Lieutenant Governor in Council is of course the government.  So government gets to appoint two out of three members - and may well appoint the Chief Electoral Officer as well (term is two elections plus one year).

This goes back to the norms we were talking about.  The commissioners who were appointed are not partisan.