[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grey Fox]

The fédéral won't finance it and Quebec can't afford it on its own. Everything else is theatre.

[viper37]

Vip, what do you think about the CAQ "betrayal" about the tunnel? I am generally happy with the decision, but I wonder if there is that much of a need for commute transport system between Québec and Lévis.

There is a need for a link.  Remote work is temporary only, and in 2000-2019 you could see it jammed for 45-60 minutes.

Lévis is too far spread out for a kind of public transit like Quebec city (tramway), there's only 329 people /km2.  The traffic comes from beyond Lévis to the west.  What Lévis wants is to grow to the east and densify its city centre.

Quebec city has little to gain from that because its growth has always been around Ste-Foy and the upper city, and that sector will be desserved by the tramway.  It has zero interests in seeing people living and working on the south shore.  I can understand their selfish position.  People would bypass the city to go to the north shore, all traffic would avoid the city, but at the same time, they'd stop going into the city's commerce.

Montreal is Montreal.  They're allergic to any sesterce being spent outside of their area on anything.  Remember when the PQ nearly imploded over the Videotron centre?  They can't stand for the area to develop on its own.  It's colonialism at its best.

The CAQ knew since around January that they couldn't build a 3rd link because of the costs.  The mobility study are bullshit, they don't say remote work will affect mobility patterns, they say it's too early to tell. 

The CAQ wanted an excuse to bow out of a costly project, they barely found one, but they got one.

There will be no 3rd link, the same argument will be used for the single-tube, public transit only project by the beginning of a 3rd CAQ mandate, or any other govt.

[viper37]

The big question now - why did the government take no action to warn the MP at the time the government knew the MP was being targeted by the Chinese?

Some misguided fear of displeasing China.

[crazy canuck]

The big question now - why did the government take no action to warn the MP at the time the government knew the MP was being targeted by the Chinese?

Some misguided fear of displeasing China.

It depends on who the decision maker was.

If it was a CSIS decision not to inform, it could be for a variety of reasons that are reasonable and well intentioned - protecting sources, protecting ongoing investigations, etc.

But the reports that are now coming out cast some doubt on CSIS being the decision maker.  The leaks indicate a high level of frustration within CSIS caused by political decision makers failing to act on the briefing they receive from CSIS.

Trudeau has denied he knew anything about the targeting.  But there were earlier reports that CSIS had briefed the PM - although the reports are not specific about what level of detail he received.  It could have just been a high level briefing that China posed a threat. 

The Parliamentary Committee looking into all of this seems to have toned down the partisan rhetoric and seems to be digging into matters in a more thoughtful way.  Hopefully that continues and our political class can figure out what happened, but more importantly how to prevent or at least reduce the risk that this happens again.

[viper37]

The Parliamentary Committee looking into all of this seems to have toned down the partisan rhetoric and seems to be digging into matters in a more thoughtful way.  Hopefully that continues and our political class can figure out what happened, but more importantly how to prevent or at least reduce the risk that this happens again.

Rosenberg is a former Deputy Minister to foreign affairs under the Harper government.
He has had dealings with China before, and was briefed on the danger they posed.

His testimony, as head of the Trudeau foundation, was essentially: we thougth we could influence China to change its ways and become less of a police state.  He also saw no problem naming Trudeau's brothers as head of the foundation, saw no conflict of interests.

Some of the witnesses are playing us for fools.

[Grey Fox]

You are saying that the Pro China Harper people found ways into the Trudeau organization. No, that's not possible.

[viper37]

You are saying that the Pro China Harper people found ways into the Trudeau organization. No, that's not possible.

Despite one economic treaty with China, Harper generally had a very tough stance on China.
Link

Do you think China wanted the LPC's MPs to win because they had a harder stance on them than Harper's?

[Grey Fox]

China is the driver of that particular truck.

[viper37]

China is the driver of that particular truck.

All occidental countries have been too soft with China.

Chrétien's Liberal government recommended businessmen to accept "gifts demands" (meaning, corruption) to facilitate deals in China back in the 90s.

[crazy canuck]

China is the driver of that particular truck.

All occidental countries have been too soft with China.

Chrétien's Liberal government recommended businessmen to accept "gifts demands" (meaning, corruption) to facilitate deals in China back in the 90s.

To be fair, that was SOP back then when dealing with corrupt governments in what we used to call the Third World.

[viper37]

China is the driver of that particular truck.

All occidental countries have been too soft with China.

Chrétien's Liberal government recommended businessmen to accept "gifts demands" (meaning, corruption) to facilitate deals in China back in the 90s.

To be fair, that was SOP back then when dealing with corrupt governments in what we used to call the Third World.

And then we complain about corrupt 3rd world governments and the behavior of our corporations...

[crazy canuck]

China is the driver of that particular truck.

All occidental countries have been too soft with China.

Chrétien's Liberal government recommended businessmen to accept "gifts demands" (meaning, corruption) to facilitate deals in China back in the 90s.

To be fair, that was SOP back then when dealing with corrupt governments in what we used to call the Third World.

And then we complain about corrupt 3rd world governments and the behavior of our corporations...

If you ignore the passing of say 30-40 years...

[viper37]

China is the driver of that particular truck.

All occidental countries have been too soft with China.

Chrétien's Liberal government recommended businessmen to accept "gifts demands" (meaning, corruption) to facilitate deals in China back in the 90s.

To be fair, that was SOP back then when dealing with corrupt governments in what we used to call the Third World.

And then we complain about corrupt 3rd world governments and the behavior of our corporations...

If you ignore the passing of say 30-40 years...

No, we've been saying the same thing since I was a child.
But then, we tell companies to do it, and complain when they do it.

[Grey Fox]

Yes. It's the failure of Reaganism.

[viper37]

Yes. It's the failure of Reaganism.

One of many.