[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[HVC]

I mainly wanted to bug viper

[crazy canuck]

PP may have good ideas on this (I don't know), but this clip is literally just him saying "there's a real problem, and my solution is start being a dick to people".

Aren't there three specific proposals: tie federal infrastructure funds to new housing (phrased as penalties and bonuses); mandate high density deelopments around and over any federally funded transit station; and selling off underutilised federal goverment buildings to developers to redevelop (good luck on that one).

Like you I'm not sure if they're right or not but it feels like there's a shape of a solution there especially given that, as you say, the federal government's actual levers on this are probably quite limited.

There is something else going on that might escape the casual observer not well versed in the mysteries of Canadian constitutional law.  He can't actually do most of what he is talking about.

He is taking a swipe at "big city" mayors because the big cities is where the Conservative vote is weakest and it is raw meat for his base.

His base will likely not think too hard about the fact that whether or not high density projects should be mandated is a question which is ulitimately within the jurisdiction of the Province and the Feds have no role in that at all. 

Something that is hard to judge as to whether it is just a jab or something of substance, is his comment about tying funding to producing housing.  "Keys in doors" was I think his phrase.  But it is unclear what funding he is talking about.  One of the reasons we have a problem with social housing is the Feds got out of that decades ago.  So, is he hinting that he would create funding for housing tied to some kind of performance metric?  Or is this just blather?  Hard to tell at this point but it would be a bit uncharacteristic of a Conservative leader to take the position that the Feds should start funding housing projects in the provinces.

The selling off of unused federal buildings is a red herring.  That has been happening for years.  A good example in the Vancouver downtown core is the main post office processing building.  It was sold to private interests, was renovated, and will be reopening soon.

[HVC]

Canada giving Volkswagen 13 billion in subsidies over 10 years to build a battery plant in Canada. When I hear of deals like this I always wonder if those costs are ever recouped in taxes and wages.

[viper37]

Canada giving Volkswagen 13 billion in subsidies over 10 years to build a battery plant in Canada. When I hear of deals like this I always wonder if those costs are ever recouped in taxes and wages.

Not really, no.

A recent study was made for Quebec's grants to the video game industry.  In the best years, we get in return about what we pay for.  So, it's 1$ for 1$.

But, it we didn't give them money, there likely would be no studios in Montreal, and less foreign workers since US States and other provinces also give them wage subsidies.  Foreign countries as well.  I still hate it.

If you want to look at the automotive industry, ask yourself how much GM, Ford and Chrysler received over the years from the Federal and Ontarian government and how much these companies contributed back to the treasury.  You ain't getting close to what it costed.  But having these plants shut down, the the point the Feds will do everything to prevent such plants from opening in Quebec (they weren't willing to subsidize Volkswagen if they came to Quebec, and that's not the first time a Liberal government has done that), would be political suicide.

[Jacob]

Liberal supporter moves from the East Coast to Fort McMurray and becomes a committed Conservative. This is his story: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/adem-campbell-first-person-fort-mcmurray-1.6804332

[Barrister]

Liberal supporter moves from the East Coast to Fort McMurray and becomes a committed Conservative. This is his story: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/adem-campbell-first-person-fort-mcmurray-1.6804332

Makes a decent case, although somewhat parochial in that it's based on Ft McMurray, that doesn't make it wrong either.

What caused you to post it?

[Jacob]

I found it interesting. I think it's also refreshingly honest - and more true than how many of us frame our arguments most of the time - in the "I had these values when I lived in this community because it made sense, and now I have the complete opposite values because I'm somewhere else and those values make sense there; and the change was driven by something relatively random, like a good baseball coaching opportunity." I think that sort of situation underlies politics much more than we normally discuss.

Also - arguments of bias notwithstanding - a grain on the pile of evidence that the CBC represents more than one voice or point of view.

But mostly I just read it and found it interesting and curious about your take and how it resonated... which I agree with. A slightly parochial argument (which I found refreshing in this case), but also - as you say - that doesn't make it wrong.

[crazy canuck]

Canada giving Volkswagen 13 billion in subsidies over 10 years to build a battery plant in Canada. When I hear of deals like this I always wonder if those costs are ever recouped in taxes and wages.

Not really, no.

A recent study was made for Quebec's grants to the video game industry.  In the best years, we get in return about what we pay for.  So, it's 1$ for 1$.

But, it we didn't give them money, there likely would be no studios in Montreal, and less foreign workers since US States and other provinces also give them wage subsidies.  Foreign countries as well.  I still hate it.

If you want to look at the automotive industry, ask yourself how much GM, Ford and Chrysler received over the years from the Federal and Ontarian government and how much these companies contributed back to the treasury.  You ain't getting close to what it costed.  But having these plants shut down, the the point the Feds will do everything to prevent such plants from opening in Quebec (they weren't willing to subsidize Volkswagen if they came to Quebec, and that's not the first time a Liberal government has done that), would be political suicide.

Yeah, I am not too concerned about it.  I support governments actively encouraging development of these technologies.  And the practical reality is we need to match what the Americans are doing.  I don't say that crticially - I think it is great they are also subsidizing the development of these technologies.

My main concern is that this deal is dependent on the US continuing to offer similar incentives.  If the GOP regains power and ends these sorts of incentives, I am concerned Canada will follow suit.  And especially if the Conservatives get elected.

[Sheilbh]

I found it interesting. I think it's also refreshingly honest - and more true than how many of us frame our arguments most of the time - in the "I had these values when I lived in this community because it made sense, and now I have the complete opposite values because I'm somewhere else and those values make sense there; and the change was driven by something relatively random, like a good baseball coaching opportunity." I think that sort of situation underlies politics much more than we normally discuss.

I think that's very, very true.

[viper37]

My main concern is that this deal is dependent on the US continuing to offer similar incentives.  If the GOP regains power and ends these sorts of incentives, I am concerned Canada will follow suit.  And especially if the Conservatives get elected.

That would be suicidal for a Conservative government to screw with an Ontarian Conservative government.

Also, the last time the automotive industry needed help, who helped them?

I wouldn't worry too much about the Federal GOP and electric car subsidies.  Elon Musk still produces electric cars.

[crazy canuck]

My main concern is that this deal is dependent on the US continuing to offer similar incentives.  If the GOP regains power and ends these sorts of incentives, I am concerned Canada will follow suit.  And especially if the Conservatives get elected.

That would be suicidal for a Conservative government to screw with an Ontarian Conservative government.

We are talking about a PP lead Conservative party.  What makes you think he will stop prioritizing the concerns of his base?

Also, the last time the automotive industry needed help, who helped them?

I assume you are referring to the extreme steps governments took all over the world after the financial collapse.  Hardly a predictor of Conservatives policy now.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Federal GOP and electric car subsidies.  Elon Musk still produces electric cars.

I can only assume you are being sarcastic?

[viper37]

We are talking about a PP lead Conservative party.  What makes you think he will stop prioritizing the concerns of his base?

He needs vote in Ontario if he wants to be in power.  Cancelling a deal on which Ford worked really hard may work well with a part of his base in very rural and ultra conservative Alberta and Saskatchewan, but it will bar him from Ontario for life and screw the Conservative party for a generation or two, the same way Albertans talk about Pierre-Elliot Trudeau and the NEP.

I assume you are referring to the extreme steps governments took all over the world after the financial collapse.  Hardly a predictor of Conservatives policy now.

Yes, this.  I know this ain't the same Conservative party, and certainly not the same as Mulroney's Conservative, but still, they need Ontario.

Not promoting electrification of our transportation is one thing, but renegating on a done deal is another entirely.

I wouldn't worry too much about the Federal GOP and electric car subsidies.  Elon Musk still produces electric cars.

I can only assume you are being sarcastic?

A bit of both.

Elon Musk has shifted mostly to the Republican side, but he'll keep on lobbying to whomever will give him an advantage, like all other big corporations.

His biggest business, his cash cow is Tesla, an electric automotive maker.

If Republicans try to screw him on this, he'll retaliate.

See Desantis and Disney.  Disney let him have his fun for a while.  He named his advisory board.  Then realized he got shafted.  Tried to retaliate even more.  Now all the Republican party is leaning on him to back off.  Even North Carolina is inviting Disney to leave Florida and move into their State.

So the GOP can target individual electric car dealers in their States, or some other small fish like that.  But at the Federal level, I can't see them doing anything drastic against this business.

And I see the same in Canada.  No change in the existing policies on this front.  Not even a change to fund existing infrastructures programs of the cities.  He just won't make it a condition that new infrastructures must be 100% public transit to finance them.

[viper37]

Can not read, behind a paywall and on my tablet.
CSIS confirms China has targetted one MP and his family.
Trudeau refuses to expel Chinese diplomat.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-csis-confirms-mp-michael-chong-and-family-targeted-by-china/


Please repost if you can, or I'll find another source on the morrow.

[crazy canuck]

Trudeau arranged for the MP who was targeted to see the CSIS report and to be brief by CSIS.  The MP confirmed that the prior reporting by the Globe and been accurate (which was based on the leaked report).  It was the same report that had been provided to the MP.

The big question now - why did the government take no action to warn the MP at the time the government knew the MP was being targeted by the Chinese?

That may be a difficult question to answer in the coming weeks/months.  But I think we can now see why someone decided to leak the report in the first place. 

Canadian Security Intelligence Service head David Vigneault on Tuesday told Conservative MP Michael Chong that he and his family were targeted by the Chinese government after he sponsored a parliamentary motion condemning Beijing's conduct in Xinjiang as genocide.

In an extraordinary meeting brokered by the Prime Minister, Mr. Chong met with Justin Trudeau, his national-security adviser Jody Thomas and Mr. Vigneault in a West Block office on Parliament Hill.

Mr. Trudeau attended for about 10 minutes and left, after which Mr. Vigneault confirmed to Mr. Chong that he and his family were targets of China and that Zhao Wei, a Chinese diplomat in Canada, was involved.

The Globe and Mail first reported on this foreign interference Monday, citing a top-secret CSIS intelligence assessment prepared in July of 2021.

Mr. Trudeau told the Commons Tuesday that he made contact with Mr. Chong and "ensured that he got a briefing from our top security officials."

Mr. Chong said Mr. Vigneault informed him he was authorized to read to him from the CSIS report quoted by The Globe "because it relates to a threat to you and your family."

Ms. Thomas told Mr. Chong the government is investigating why he was not alerted about this.

Mr. Chong said the government's negligence in notifying him of China's targeting back in 2021 represents a significant mistake. "This is very concerning and it's either a breakdown in the machinery of government or a political failure," Mr. Chong said.

He recalled CSIS officials met with him on June 24, 2021. This was part of an outreach to numerous Parliamentarians that The Globe has previously reported on. "It was a broad briefing on foreign interference," Mr. Chong said. "They did not tell me there was a diplomat in the Chinese consulate in Toronto that was targeting my family."

Mr. Zhao is listed in the Department of Global Affairs' record of foreign diplomats as working in China's Toronto consulate. In February, The Globe reported that a national-security source described Mr. Zhao as a "suspected intelligence actor."

STORY CONTINUES BELOW ADVERTISEMENT


Mr. Trudeau rejected accusations by Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre in the Commons Tuesday that the Liberal government took no steps to protect MPs after such a threat was reported. "Based on briefings that I received following [Monday's Globe] story, I know that steps have been taken to protect members when they could be in the spotlight of foreign actors because of the legitimate work they do in this place," Mr. Trudeau said.

Mr. Chong said Tuesday he is asking Commons Speaker Anthony Rota to allow the House to decide if Mr. Zhao is in contempt of Parliament for efforts to intimidate an MP. "I confirmed the serious, grave details in the Globe report, including that an individual in Canada, Mr. Wei Zhao, accredited by the Government of Canada was involved and conducting these intimidation operations" he told the Commons.

"It has become even clearer in the last 24 hours that members of Parliament, certainly opposition members, and Canadians at large, cannot rely upon the government of Canada, the executive branch of our system, to discharge its role as a defender of the realm," he said.

"That's why Parliament and this House in particular must vindicate its own authority and protect our own interests and those of the members of this place when those interests are under threat, as we now see."

Members of the NDP and Bloc Québécois rose to support Mr. Chong.

The Chinese embassy in Ottawa did not immediately respond to a request for comment. The Globe has asked the embassy three times for comment on this matter since April 28.

The Globe reported Monday that a July, 2021, intelligence assessment by CSIS found China's intelligence service, the Ministry of State Security (MSS), "has taken specific actions to target Canadian MPs" linked to the February, 2021, parliamentary motion condemning Beijing's oppression of Uyghurs and other Turkic minorities.

That motion, which passed, declared that China's conduct amounts to genocide.

The spy agency said an MSS officer sought information on an unnamed Canadian MP's relatives "who may be located in the PRC [People's Republic of China], for further potential sanctions."

This effort, the CSIS report said, "is almost certainly meant to make an example of this MP and deter others from taking anti-PRC positions."

A national-security source, whom The Globe did not name in the Monday story because they risk prosecution under the Security of Information Act, said the MP targeted was Mr. Chong, and that Mr. Zhao was working on this matter.

The Globe reported Monday that according to the top-secret intelligence assessment from CSIS, China sees Canada as a "high-priority target" and employs "incentives and punishment" as part of a vast influence network directed at legislators, business executives and diaspora communities.

The report warned that Beijing is the "foremost perpetrator" of foreign interference in Canada. Its agents are unconcerned about repercussions, the report says, because of the lack of obstacles such as a foreign-influence registry.

It's not known whether elected officials in Canada gained access to the report, which was produced by the agency's Intelligence Assessment Branch and dated July 20, 2021, several weeks before the federal election campaign got under way.

The assessment is presented as a "baseline for understanding the intent, motives and scope" of Beijing's foreign interference in Canada.

The nine-page document, seen by The Globe, is the latest example of the warnings published by Canada's security service in recent years. It's marked top secret and for Canadian eyes only.

It said Canada needs to erect more obstacles to foreign interference. "Absent real disincentives," such as a foreign-influence registry and indictments of foreign-interference actors, Chinese targeting of Canada is "expected to continue and increase over time."

"Threat actors almost certainly perceive their activities in Canada to be low-risk and high reward," the assessment said.

[Rex Francorum]

Vip, what do you think about the CAQ "betrayal" about the tunnel? I am generally happy with the decision, but I wonder if there is that much of a need for commute transport system between Québec and Lévis.