[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[crazy canuck]

I'm not sure what you're talking about Viber but you seem so far into conspiracy right wing land that is really no point in talking to you

[viper37]

I'm not sure what you're talking about Viber but you seem so far into conspiracy right wing land that is really no point in talking to you

It ain't conspiracy theory, it's all in the report: information sharing.

[Grey Fox]

What info did they share for the Quebec city protests? Of what I know it was the SQ and QPD telling them that unlike Ottawa the police wasn't on the protesters side.

It's what you seem to dismiss out of the box, the ODP wasn't going to listen to anything the RCMP or the OPP had to say.


Sa me surprend toujours comment toi tu aimes la police. Ils sont l'organisation qui représente le plus ce que tu détestes dans plein d'autres sphères de notre société. Un syndicat complètement hermétique qui fait rien sauf ce protégé lui même.

[viper37]

What info did they share for the Quebec city protests? Of what I know it was the SQ and QPD telling them that unlike Ottawa the police wasn't on the protesters side.

It's what you seem to dismiss out of the box, the ODP wasn't going to listen to anything the RCMP or the OPP had to say.


Sa me surprend toujours comment toi tu aimes la police. Ils sont l'organisation qui représente le plus ce que tu détestes dans plein d'autres sphères de notre société. Un syndicat complètement hermétique qui fait rien sauf ce protégé lui même.

À Québec, ils ont vu ce qu'ils se passaient depuis 2 semaines à Ottawa, et connaissaient l'ampleur de la protestation.  La SQ a son propre service d'enquête sur les réseaux sociaux et n'attend pas vraiment après la GRC, contrairement aux corps municipaux et provinciaux des autres provinces.

Je suis d'accord que la SQ, syndiqué à la FTQ se protège elle même et n'enquêtera jamais sur les dérives du syndicalisme au Québec.  Mais ici, le gouvernement a donné un mandat clair: stoppé la protestation, et ils se sont coordonnés avec la police de Québec.

Ford is equally to blame with Trudeau on this.  Both were passive, trying to score points against the other.  But ultimately, when nothing happens, it's up to the Feds to take the mandate of doing something in Ottawa.  Especially if you know something big is coming your way.

It's akin to Environment Canada knowing there's a huge storm coming our way and telling no one about it, keeping the data for itself, just to see how the provinces could react without its help.

[crazy canuck]

Are you seriously contending that if the federal government comes to the conclusion that the province is not acting appropriately that the feds can then decide unilaterally to intervene? I'm not sure you thoroughly thought through the consequences of that position.

[viper37]

Are you seriously contending that if the federal government comes to the conclusion that the province is not acting appropriately that the feds can then decide unilaterally to intervene? I'm not sure you thoroughly thought through the consequences of that position.

That's what they want to do.

In the case of the RCMP, they already have that jurisdiction.   They are usually there to simply share information, but they didn't do it here.  The protests were in Ottawa, close to the parliament.  Not in some random street of Vanier.

[Grey Fox]

The Parliament police/security tried that with the OPD.

The OPD wasn't listening. They reach the conclusion that the truckers were going to pass by and not stay & would not entertain any other options. When it became obvious that it wasn't the case, the OPD leadership buried it's head in the sands when it also became obvious that it's employees were on the side of the truckers.

The RCMP, OPP, Ford and Trudeau could have change the situation earlier but it only ever had one street to go and do it. To bypass the OPD.

[viper37]

The Parliament police/security tried that with the OPD.

The OPD wasn't listening. They reach the conclusion that the truckers were going to pass by and not stay & would not entertain any other options. When it became obvious that it wasn't the case, the OPD leadership buried it's head in the sands when it also became obvious that it's employees were on the side of the truckers.

The RCMP, OPP, Ford and Trudeau could have change the situation earlier but it only ever had one street to go and do it. To bypass the OPD.

That's not what the commissionner's report is saying.  It does not absolve anyone, but it points that the OPD never had a clear picture of what was coming its way.

[crazy canuck]

Something that will likely interest all Languishites - Chinese meddling in Canadian elections confirmed, and the response of the Canadian gov't 

Editorial from the Globe and Mail

In the space of a week, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's mysteriously ambivalent response to the revelation that Chinese operatives meddled in the 2021 general election has gone from bad to worse.

When The Globe and Mail broke the news last Friday about CSIS intelligence reports outlining the scope of the interference, Mr. Trudeau's message was that any Chinese meddling that occurred didn't affect the outcome of the election, and Canadians could rest assured their democracy was safe.

The Prime Minister seemed oddly untroubled by the fact that CSIS had uncovered illegal activities co-ordinated by Beijing. These included operatives giving undeclared cash donations to preferred political campaigns, co-operative businesses hiring international Chinese students who then volunteered in campaigns, and campaigns refunding donors the difference between the amount they gave and the amount returned to them as a tax refund.

Given that CSIS says the point of China's interference was to help bring about the Liberals' re-election, and to defeat Conservative Party candidates deemed a threat to Beijing's interests, the lack of urgency in Mr. Trudeau's response left itself open to interpretation.

That only got worse this week, when the Liberals tried to twist valid Conservative criticism of the government's handling of the matter into an attack on Canada's democratic institutions.

"This is the same Trump-type tactics to question election results moving forward," Jennifer O'Connell, parliamentary secretary to the minister of intergovernmental affairs, told the standing committee on Procedure and House Affairs.

The committee, which was investigating Chinese interference in the 2019 election, is now looking into interference in 2021. That prompted Mr. Trudeau to say that any Conservative attempt to make the issue a partisan one would play into hands of foreign actors like Russia and China that are trying to undermine Canadians' faith in democracy.

"It's not about one party versus another," he said.

Except that it's always about one party versus for another for Mr. Trudeau, and his attempt to demonize political opponents who criticize his handling of Chinese election meddling is so typical of that.

No one is questioning the fact that Chinese meddling did not change who formed government in 2019 and 2021.

STORY CONTINUES BELOW ADVERTISEMENT


So if the Liberals insist on raising the spectre of Donald Trump, then it has to be said that the only people for whom the Trumpist shoe fits are in the party that may have benefitted from foreign election interference in the last two elections, and which seems not too overly concerned that it took place.

The possibility of co-ordinated Chinese interference has been known since the 2019 election. Credible evidence emerged in its wake that China targeted a sitting Conservative MP who had tabled a private members bill to created a foreign-agent registry, something Beijing didn't want to see happen. The MP was defeated by his Liberal opponent.

Last November, it came to light that Mr. Trudeau was briefed in January, 2022 about a Chinese campaign of election interference in 2019 in the Greater Toronto Area, but sat on the information. And now we know an even more sophisticated campaign of Chinese interference occurred in 2021.

Mr. Trudeau has had every opportunity to be forthright about Beijing's meddling. When the latest news broke last week, he could have promised a tough response that included the expulsion of Chinese diplomats and a call for investigations into the fraud CSIS says took place in some ridings. And he could have immediately announced legislation to create a much-needed foreign-agent registry.

Instead, he and his acolytes have played the Trump card and said that opposition MPs who raise questions about his government's handling of this grave matter will be playing into the hands of malevolent foreign actors.

As well, the Liberals and their allies in the NDP have limited the scope of the standing committee's investigation into the 2021 interference by voting down a motion calling on the government to provide it with relevant documents.

Mr. Trudeau and the Liberals had the chance to rise up in defence of Canada's electoral system. Instead, they've raised serious doubts about their credibility on the issue. If they want to restore it, they need to call an independent public inquiry into Chinese election interference.

One update, it seems the NDP have now changed their tune and are now distancing themselves from the Liberals.  There may well be some form of official investigation into what Trudeau knew and when he knew it.  This could become uncomfortable for the PM.

[Barrister]

Yeah I have meant to post on this story.

What's really quite extraordinary is that CSIS itself appears to be leaking these stories since they're so concerned that Trudeau is doing nothing about Chinese election interference.

And then yes - it's so typical for the Liberals to take any criticism of their lack of interest into election interference as being 'Trumpian election deniers'.

[Grey Fox]

I, also, find it interesting how the Chinese have turned their back on the CPC after the Harper years.

[Valmy]

And then yes - it's so typical for the Liberals to take any criticism of their lack of interest into election interference as being 'Trumpian election deniers'.

Yeah Trump crying wolf over all this stuff does make it easier for actual election shenanigans to occur. And bear in mind there is plenty of it in the United States, it is just well known and out in open not done by secret cabals of voting machine companies and vote counting volunteers.

[crazy canuck]

Yeah I have meant to post on this story.

What's really quite extraordinary is that CSIS itself appears to be leaking these stories since they're so concerned that Trudeau is doing nothing about Chinese election interference.

And then yes - it's so typical for the Liberals to take any criticism of their lack of interest into election interference as being 'Trumpian election deniers'.

Yep, my guess is this is the one that takes them down.  Concern about China is something that, I think, unites many Canadians.  And it looks like CSIS is doing what it can to get this taken seriously.  The fact they have to leak shows their desperation to address the situation ahead of the next election. 

Locally there was a Conservative candidate who lost his Richmond riding (which was a fairly safe seat) and there has been a lot of information about how China played an active role in that loss.  So I think the Editorial piece I posted did a bit of a disservice in suggesting that China's interference played no role in the election results.

[crazy canuck]

And then yes - it's so typical for the Liberals to take any criticism of their lack of interest into election interference as being 'Trumpian election deniers'.

Yeah Trump crying wolf over all this stuff does make it easier for actual election shenanigans to occur. And bear in mind there is plenty of it in the United States, it is just well known and out in open not done by secret cabals of voting machine companies and vote counting volunteers.

I think it is the opposite -  Trump proved that one can shake off clear evidence of foreign election interference which benefits you and still keep your base.  Trudeau seemed to have learned that lesson and is following the same game plan.

[Valmy]

And then yes - it's so typical for the Liberals to take any criticism of their lack of interest into election interference as being 'Trumpian election deniers'.

Yeah Trump crying wolf over all this stuff does make it easier for actual election shenanigans to occur. And bear in mind there is plenty of it in the United States, it is just well known and out in open not done by secret cabals of voting machine companies and vote counting volunteers.

I think it is the opposite -  Trump proved that one can shake off clear evidence of foreign election interference which benefits you and still keep your base.  Trudeau seemed to have learned that lesson and is following the same game plan.

Yeah. Good point. That as well.