[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Barrister]

Or take a leadership stance and work to develop a way for Quebec hydro to reach them. Instead of crying about equalization.

How about this deal - we'll build power lines going from Quebec to Alberta, if at the same time (and maybe even using the same right of way) we build pipelines going from Alberta to Quebec.

It's a win-win!

No. Tar sands oil should be phased out as quickly as possible. Building more ways to export it outside the province is a problem not a solution.

aka Alberta you need to shut down the major driver of your economy ASAP.  And in the meantime, lets invest billions in Quebec's economy!

Pass.

"Tar sands" is environmentalist Newspeak.  Spending money on Saudi or Iranian oil is not a better option during the transition to a greener economy then spending it in Alberta.

[viper37]

aka Alberta you need to shut down the major driver of your economy ASAP.  And in the meantime, lets invest billions in Quebec's economy!

No.  It meant transitioning away from oil and coal and gaz years ago toward something cleaner.  Which Alberta always refused.  You could have developped your own clean industry.  You let others take the lead.  Than you complain all the money is going away while everyone else picks up the tab to clean up the damages you left.

"Tar sands" is environmentalist Newspeak.  Spending money on Saudi or Iranian oil is not a better option during the transition to a greener economy then spending it in Alberta.

I'm not sure Alberta's environmental practice are that much better, you know.  There's always been lots of contaminants rejected into the waters.

No one but the craziest nuts asked Alberta to completely shut it down.  Just make some effort instead of stalling everyone else.

[Barrister]

I feel like I need another break.  Merry Christmas all.

[Grey Fox]

I feel like I need another break.  Merry Christmas all.

Merry Christmas but I am not Berkut, there isn't really any reason to take a break from me. 😆

[viper37]

I feel like I need another break.  Merry Christmas all.

Merry Christmas, but we're just discussing between adults here.

[crazy canuck]

Or take a leadership stance and work to develop a way for Quebec hydro to reach them. Instead of crying about equalization.

How about this deal - we'll build power lines going from Quebec to Alberta, if at the same time (and maybe even using the same right of way) we build pipelines going from Alberta to Quebec.

It's a win-win!

No. Tar sands oil should be phased out as quickly as possible. Building more ways to export it outside the province is a problem not a solution.

aka Alberta you need to shut down the major driver of your economy ASAP.  And in the meantime, lets invest billions in Quebec's economy!

Pass.

"Tar sands" is environmentalist Newspeak.  Spending money on Saudi or Iranian oil is not a better option during the transition to a greener economy then spending it in Alberta.

I recall the bitumen in Alberta being referred to as the tar sands in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s. It was not until a rebranding exercise under the Harper government that it became more common to refer to them as the oil sands.

Both terms are inaccurate, but bitumen sands are a bit of a mouthful.

[HVC]

Tar sands sounds cooler.

[Barrister]

I recall the bitumen in Alberta being referred to as the tar sands in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s. It was not until a rebranding exercise under the Harper government that it became more common to refer to them as the oil sands.

Both terms are inaccurate, but bitumen sands are a bit of a mouthful.

I mean I wasn't exactly reading in the 70s, and not paying attention to economic news in the 80s, but by the 90s (when I remember applying for a job at Suncor at Ft McMurray) they were universally called oil sands.

[HVC]

It could be a trick of memory but I'm pretty sure it was called tar sands growing up here.  Maybe a regional thing?

[Oexmelin]

Sables bitumineux in French then and now.

[crazy canuck]

I recall the bitumen in Alberta being referred to as the tar sands in the 70s and 80s and into the 90s. It was not until a rebranding exercise under the Harper government that it became more common to refer to them as the oil sands.

Both terms are inaccurate, but bitumen sands are a bit of a mouthful.

I mean I wasn't exactly reading in the 70s, and not paying attention to economic news in the 80s, but by the 90s (when I remember applying for a job at Suncor at Ft McMurray) they were universally called oil sands.

Well I was, and I can tell you that even the people who worked in the tar sands in the 80s (my dad being one of them) called them tar sands. Mind you, back then the tech was not yet developed, and the price point was such, that it was not yet viable for intensive development.  But they were starting to build the infrastructure for development.  Once it became more commercially viable the rebranding took place.

The fact one of the companies engaged in bitumen extraction in the 90s was calling it "oil sands" is not surprising.  I am sure the Harper government wasn't the originator of the phrase.  But it was a branding exercise and a successful one at that. 

[Barrister]

I mean I wasn't exactly reading in the 70s, and not paying attention to economic news in the 80s, but by the 90s (when I remember applying for a job at Suncor at Ft McMurray) they were universally called oil sands.

Well I was, and I can tell you that even the people who worked in the tar sands in the 80s (my dad being one of them) called them tar sands. Mind you, back then the tech was not yet developed, and the price point was such, that it was not yet viable for intensive development.  But they were starting to build the infrastructure for development.  Once it became more commercially viable the rebranding took place.

The fact one of the companies engaged in bitumen extraction in the 90s was calling it "oil sands" is not surprising.  I am sure the Harper government wasn't the originator of the phrase.  But it was a branding exercise and a successful one at that. 

Suncor isn't "one of the companies engaged in bitumen extraction" - it was the pioneer.  If your dad was working in that field in the 1980s he was working for/with Suncor.  It was only by the late 90s/early 2000s that other companies got massively into oil sands projects.

The very wording of "tar sands" vs "oil sands" has gotten terribly politicized, even though yes "bitumen sands" is the most accurate term.  But like I said I never heard the phrase "tar sands" until the move against development against Bitumen sands development near Ft McMurray gained steam in the 2000s.  "Oil sands" absolutely well predated the Harper government.

[Grey Fox]

I love it when you guys start arguing semantics because I used the wrong translation of a expression.

  

[Barrister]

I love it when you guys start arguing semantics because I used the wrong translation of a expression.

  

As you can perhaps now tell, "oil sands" versus "tar sands" has heavy political baggage these days.

It's the "pro choice" versus "pro life" terminology battle of our days.

[crazy canuck]

I mean I wasn't exactly reading in the 70s, and not paying attention to economic news in the 80s, but by the 90s (when I remember applying for a job at Suncor at Ft McMurray) they were universally called oil sands.

Well I was, and I can tell you that even the people who worked in the tar sands in the 80s (my dad being one of them) called them tar sands. Mind you, back then the tech was not yet developed, and the price point was such, that it was not yet viable for intensive development.  But they were starting to build the infrastructure for development.  Once it became more commercially viable the rebranding took place.

The fact one of the companies engaged in bitumen extraction in the 90s was calling it "oil sands" is not surprising.  I am sure the Harper government wasn't the originator of the phrase.  But it was a branding exercise and a successful one at that. 

Suncor isn't "one of the companies engaged in bitumen extraction" - it was the pioneer.  If your dad was working in that field in the 1980s he was working for/with Suncor.  It was only by the late 90s/early 2000s that other companies got massively into oil sands projects.

The very wording of "tar sands" vs "oil sands" has gotten terribly politicized, even though yes "bitumen sands" is the most accurate term.  But like I said I never heard the phrase "tar sands" until the move against development against Bitumen sands development near Ft McMurray gained steam in the 2000s.  "Oil sands" absolutely well predated the Harper government.

You are making assumptions which are not warranted.  My dad worked for a land clearing company that was part of the infrastructure build up - he operated a cat clearing and levelling land for the roads that would be built.

I am not sure why you are fighting on this one, since you have already acknowledged your knowledge of what happened before the 90s is limited.  Ideology?