[Canada] Canadian Politics Redux

[Grey Fox]

I don't understand how forcing people who don't want to have children to have children is good idea for anyone.

[HVC]

I don't understand how forcing people who don't want to have children to have children is good idea for anyone.

I can sympathize with those that truly believe that fetus' are living beings (as opposed the the anti-abortionists who fall under you're a slut so deal with the consequences strain), but I fall under the end of the spectrum like you and Jacob where abortion is a net good. Less unwanted children is a good thing.

[viper37]

I don't understand how forcing people who don't want to have children to have children is good idea for anyone.

It is not.  But there's nothing bad discussing the public policies behind it.

We did discuss how forcing people to smoke pot, even when they didn't want to, by making it legal and legitimate was a good idea or not.  Ultimately, society decided it was a good idea to go everywhere and be assaulted by the smell of pot without any kind of recourse.  Landlords can't forbid it, employers can't forbid it, everyone has to live with it.

It was a bad public policy, but we did discuss it, like we do discuss any other kinds of bad ideas.  Abortion issues are no different.

[Grey Fox]

Yes. 

[viper37]

Perhaps. But I also think it's a really difficult message to discuss on a tiny little private message board that is overwhelmingly male.

we use the tools we have at our disposal.  Women gamers are still the minority and among strategy gamers, already a niche, there are even less of them.  A discussion board created as the spinoff with more relaxed rules from a strategy gaming board, as back then, Paradox only had strategy games, is bound to have less women than a more generalized board.  Just like a meeting board for metalheads will have 10 males for 1 female.  Doesn't mean there are subjects we can't discuss.

I would be uneasy about having a public discussion on abortion were women are not allowed to comment, or where we make it purposefully difficult for them to comment.  However, this is a discussion board, where we talk about the war on Ukraine without having anyone living in Russia or Ukraine in our membership.  I don't think we even have anyone who lived there at some point as an adult.  We debated the Iraq war without having any Iraqui here.  The closest we had to a middle eastern person was Bmollson from Indonesia, not exactly in the same neighbourhood.

Unless you are suggesting we discuss only political issues affecting males in countries where our members are from?  Quebec, Canada, US, UK, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Netherlands, Iceland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and that's it?  Can't discuss Australia or New Zealand?  Not even Finland is allowed?

[Malthus]

Heh, I at least know someone who lived in Ukraine as an adult - my wife spent a year there doing economic development work in the 90s.

[Jacob]

It looks like there'll be a long term confidence and supply agreement between the NDP and Liberals, allegedly keeping the government stable until 2025.

So far it seems the NDP will be getting some version of national pharmacare and dental care out of it, which could be a pretty fundamental change... especially if it has a chance to be in effect for a while before a government change. I'm curious what other results we may see from this.

It'll also be interesting to see how this plays out in terms of public reception. On initial blush it seems NDP and Liberal supporters are favourable, while the Conservative reaction is (unsurprisingly) negative:

Conservative Leader Candice Bergen issued a statement late Monday saying the deal "is nothing more than a callous attempt by Trudeau to hold on to power."

"This is an NDP-Liberal attempt at government by blackmail. Nation-building is replaced by vote-buying; secret deal-making over parliamentary debate; and opportunism over accountability," she said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeu-jagmeet-singh-working-together-1.6392756

It'll also be interesting to see how it plays out at the end of the period... will the distinction between the two parties disappear, or will people feel that voting NDP is a good way to get actual more leftwing results vs voting Lib will get a more centrist one, just validating both vote choices? Or will more right leaning Liberals be inclined to shift Conservative due to the NDP having real influence?

Will this facilitate a more orderly leadership change among the Liberals (or will Trudeau hang on)?

Interesting times.

[Josephus]

Talking about polls now is pretty pointless...especially as the Liberals are going to stay in power until 2025 for sure. 

[Josquius]

Well that's sad. Would have hoped voting reform would be the key demand.
Sad both because I think it'd be better for Canada and it'd help the case elsewhere.

[crazy canuck]

I'm not so sure the MDP is all that interested in proportional representation. There is a real risk that the Green party would carve out a significant amount of support at the cost of the NDP if that ever became a reality. The NDP is a broad coalition of a number of groups that don't actually agree on their specific issues. Take for example the resource sector unions versus the environmentalist. Now that the Green party has collapsed both those groups are within the NDP. But with proportional representation I don't see any chance those two groups stay within the same political party.

[Grey Fox]

I've seen data that the winner of the collapse of the Green party is the PPC. That's where the former green flock.

[viper37]

It looks like there'll be a long term confidence and supply agreement between the NDP and Liberals, allegedly keeping the government stable until 2025.

So far it seems the NDP will be getting some version of national pharmacare and dental care out of it, which could be a pretty fundamental change... especially if it has a chance to be in effect for a while before a government change. I'm curious what other results we may see from this.

It'll also be interesting to see how this plays out in terms of public reception. On initial blush it seems NDP and Liberal supporters are favourable, while the Conservative reaction is (unsurprisingly) negative:

Conservative Leader Candice Bergen issued a statement late Monday saying the deal "is nothing more than a callous attempt by Trudeau to hold on to power."

"This is an NDP-Liberal attempt at government by blackmail. Nation-building is replaced by vote-buying; secret deal-making over parliamentary debate; and opportunism over accountability," she said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeu-jagmeet-singh-working-together-1.6392756

It'll also be interesting to see how it plays out at the end of the period... will the distinction between the two parties disappear, or will people feel that voting NDP is a good way to get actual more leftwing results vs voting Lib will get a more centrist one, just validating both vote choices? Or will more right leaning Liberals be inclined to shift Conservative due to the NDP having real influence?

Will this facilitate a more orderly leadership change among the Liberals (or will Trudeau hang on)?

Interesting times.

Shocking.  The NDP and Liberal being together, voting together, not criticizing one another.

Never seen it coming.

Truly shocking.

The Conservative opposition is accurate, national policies aren't debated publicly, people don't vote on it, and once in the house, it's down the pipeline for a fast track approval with token representation.

Meh.

Democracy dies in darkness, they say.

[Grey Fox]

Bad when we have early elections, bad when we have stability.

Les conservateurs juste du braillage.

[crazy canuck]

I've seen data that the winner of the collapse of the Green party is the PPC. That's where the former green flock.

That is an interesting data point, but the NDP are not worried about those people.  Rather their concern is keeping the coalition of NDP vote together.  I am not sure how viable they are without fptp.  On the other hand the same is true of the Liberals and Conservatives.   

The big winners would be the now fringe parties.

[Barrister]

So I thought I was going to quit again for awhile, then the Lib/NDP support agreement was announced.

I think I'll just modify my ignore list instead.

You know I can see what's in it for the Liberals, but don't see what is in it for the NDP.  If the new dentalcare program is really popular, who is going to get the credit?  Trudeau.  If it is a disaster, it will be to the benefit of the Conservatives.  It's pretty much lose-lose for the NDP.

I mean unless they're making some kind of principled stand - that they're willing to torch their electoral chances after 2025 in exchange for needed programs now.  If so very noble stand, but I doubt they're going into this with their eyes open that wide.