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TV/Movies Megathread

Started by Eddie Teach, March 06, 2011, 09:29:27 AM

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Ideologue

Cel: I can give that to M as an early talkie.  However, my issues with M are, to be clear, not its filmmaking technique, but rather how emotionless and anchorless its procedural is.  It's a movie to recommend to people that thought Zodiac or the last half of High and Low just weren't dry and anonymous enough.  (Lorre is pretty good, though and I do like the movie, but feel its status is highly inflated.)

But the silent films of the late 20s had a well-developed language.  And Metropolis isn't a failure because it's made poorly or doesn't read as a motion picture.  It's a failure because it's kind of dumb, ideologically suspect, goofy, and boring.  And every H.G. Wells I've consulted agrees. :P  I mean, Safety Last is a far more incisive critique of capitalism, and the only reason that movie even exists is so Harold Lloyd can climb up a wall.

Re: Vertigo--I dunno, it would've had me going. -_-  But I think we must disagree more substantially on the first point--I thought it actively obscured Scotty's character rather than revealed it.  He's a monster but doesn't seem like it because we know Judy deserves to be punished.  (It does, I concede, help explain why Judy would at all put up with Scotty's obvious derangement.)

I think ultimately people get overexcited about Vertigo's filmmaking, which is excellent, featuring several firsts or near-firsts; so they endeavor to elevate the story, which isn't bad but neither is it great, to the same level.

P.S.: yeah, the reveal's the worst.
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Valmy

Quote from: celedhring on April 21, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 21, 2014, 05:04:45 PM
Quote from: celedhring on April 21, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
Neither Dracula or Casablanca are particularly rated in scholarly circles, though. Lang is a daring proposition - I always find difficult to appropiately rate films from the times film language was still developing. It's like saying that XIth century romanesque painting sucks because the drawings were bad.

What scholarly circles are those?

You can check the Sight and Sound list, where Casablanca is #85 and Dracula doesn't even make the list. It's made by polling film critics all over the world.

Well that's new.  Virtually every big fancy scholarly list I have ever seen puts Casablanca up near the top.  Maybe they found new obscure films from the 20s to rank above anything you have ever heard of.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Ideologue

Quote from: celedhring on April 21, 2014, 05:20:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on April 21, 2014, 05:04:45 PM
Quote from: celedhring on April 21, 2014, 05:02:13 PM
Neither Dracula or Casablanca are particularly rated in scholarly circles, though. Lang is a daring proposition - I always find difficult to appropiately rate films from the times film language was still developing. It's like saying that XIth century romanesque painting sucks because the drawings were bad.

What scholarly circles are those?

You can check the Sight and Sound list, where Casablanca is #85 and Dracula doesn't even make the list. It's made by polling film critics all over the world.

Fair enough.  The only top ten of all time I could remember was Ebert's, and Casablanca was his #1.

What about The Invisible Man?  Now that's a Goddamned movie. :cool:  (I know it's not on there.)

Ugh.  Bicycle Thieves is right above The General.  Fuuuck. :bleeding:
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

Josephus

I think Cronenberg is over rated. Dare I say that?
Yes, he was groundbreaking. His first few films were shot on a shoe string and were, shall we say, interesting, although they don't really stand the test of time, and kudos for using a porn star in Rabid. I include Videodrome in this. His, what I call middle period, is certainly his most commercial and watcheable, although The Fly was ...meh....I though Dead Zone was OK, and Dead Ringers, is probably my favourite.

But then he quickly lost it. Naked Lunch, Crash even ExistenZ were just boring. ExistenZ could have been so much better. I never saw M.Butterfly.

A History of Violence and Eastern Promises were promising comebacks, IMO. Haven't seen, or even heard of, A Dangerous Method and Cosmopolis.
Civis Romanus Sum<br /><br />"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." Jack Layton 1950-2011

mongers

Quote from: Ideologue on April 21, 2014, 05:34:01 PM

Fair enough.  The only top ten of all time I could remember was Ebert's, and Casablanca was his #1.

What about The Invisible Man?  Now that's a Goddamned movie. :cool:  (I know it's not on there.)

Ugh.  Bicycle Thieves is right above The General.  Fuuuck. :bleeding:

Bastards.  :mad:
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Eddie Teach

Quote from: Queequeg on April 21, 2014, 04:46:19 PM
Shirley MacLaine could do that and act at the same time.

What's that got to do with anything? They're not even remotely the same character.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

celedhring

#18606
Quote from: Ideologue on April 21, 2014, 05:29:19 PM
Cel: I can give that to M as an early talkie.  However, my issues with M are, to be clear, not its filmmaking technique, but rather how emotionless and anchorless its procedural is.  It's a movie to recommend to people that thought Zodiac or the last half of High and Low just weren't dry and anonymous enough.  (Lorre is pretty good, though and I do like the movie, but feel its status is highly inflated.)

But the silent films of the late 20s had a well-developed language.  And Metropolis isn't a failure because it's made poorly or doesn't read as a motion picture.  It's a failure because it's kind of dumb, ideologically suspect, goofy, and boring.  And every H.G. Wells I've consulted agrees. :P  I mean, Safety Last is a far more incisive critique of capitalism, and the only reason that movie even exists is so Harold Lloyd can climb up a wall.

Re: Vertigo--I dunno, it would've had me going. -_-  But I think we must disagree more substantially on the first point--I thought it actively obscured Scotty's character rather than revealed it.  He's a monster but doesn't seem like it because we know Judy deserves to be punished.  (It does, I concede, help explain why Judy would at all put up with Scotty's obvious derangement.)

I think ultimately people get overexcited about Vertigo's filmmaking, which is excellent, featuring several firsts or near-firsts; so they endeavor to elevate the story, which isn't bad but neither is it great, to the same level.

P.S.: yeah, the reveal's the worst.

I think we can agree in the general assessment regarding Vertigo - it's a truly outstanding cinematic achievement that's left short by its story.

Regarding Metropolis, it is an expressionistic movie - the art movement then dominant in Germany. German Expressionism was caracterized by using cinematic technique to portray heightened emotional states - sublimating the social strife of Weimar Germany - in lightning, set design, acting... So naturally the film will look outdated, exaggerated and silly to modern audiences. American Classicism doesn't go to those extremes to paint emotion (unless you're Tim Burton), and that's what we've grown accustomed to so Metropolis does look ridiculous now. Lang would abandon this style pretty quickly, in M for example - film was still trying to figure out itself.

garbon

"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Queequeg

You ever seen Night of the Hunter, Celed?
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Queequeg

Quote from: garbon on April 21, 2014, 06:18:25 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 21, 2014, 04:55:53 PM
God the sooner we can all forget about Crash the better :bleeding:

:yes:

I'm worried that people will start ironically appreciating it, like what happened with American Beauty.  :bleeding:
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

Ideologue

Quote from: Queequeg on April 21, 2014, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 21, 2014, 06:18:25 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 21, 2014, 04:55:53 PM
God the sooner we can all forget about Crash the better :bleeding:

:yes:

I'm worried that people will start ironically appreciating it, like what happened with American Beauty.  :bleeding:

:unsure:
Kinemalogue
Current reviews: The 'Burbs (9/10); Gremlins 2: The New Batch (9/10); John Wick: Chapter 2 (9/10); A Cure For Wellness (4/10)

garbon

Quote from: Queequeg on April 21, 2014, 06:19:20 PM
Quote from: garbon on April 21, 2014, 06:18:25 PM
Quote from: Sheilbh on April 21, 2014, 04:55:53 PM
God the sooner we can all forget about Crash the better :bleeding:

:yes:

I'm worried that people will start ironically appreciating it, like what happened with American Beauty.  :bleeding:

I can't say I really care what people like ironically. :hmm:
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Queequeg

Liking something ironically is one step closer to actually liking it.  I'm worried that is what is happening with AB.  That movie deserves to be forgotten about forever. 
Quote from: PDH on April 25, 2009, 05:58:55 PM
"Dysthymia?  Did they get some student from the University of Chicago with a hard-on for ancient Bactrian cities to name this?  I feel cheated."

The Larch

Why the dislike for American Beauty?

celedhring

Quote from: Queequeg on April 21, 2014, 06:18:30 PM
You ever seen Night of the Hunter, Celed?

Yeah, like it a lot.