TV/Movies Megathread

[Ideologue]

Here's the account of his capture of Jerusalem. While he was not a saint (especially by modern standards), this beats wholesome slaughter:

Saladin had captured almost every Crusader city. Jerusalem capitulated to his forces on October 2, 1187, after a siege. When the siege had started, Saladin was unwilling to promise terms of quarter to the Frankish inhabitants of Jerusalem until Balian of Ibelin threatened to kill every Muslim hostage, estimated at 5000, and to destroy Islam's holy shrines of the Dome of the Rock and the al-Aqsa Mosque if quarter was not given. Saladin consulted his council and these terms were accepted. An unusually low ransom for the times (around $50 in modern money) was to be paid for each Frank in the city whether man, woman or child but Saladin, against the wishes of his treasurers, allowed many families who could not afford the ransom to leave.[87][88] Patriarch Heraclius of Jerusalem organised, and contributed to a collection which paid the ransoms for about 18,000 of the poorer citizens, leaving another 15,000 to be enslaved, Saladins brother al-Adil, "asked Saladin for a thousand of them for his own use and then released them on the spot." Most of the foot soldiers were sold into slavery.[89] Upon the capture of Jerusalem, Saladin summoned the Jews and permitted them to resettle in the city.[90] In particular, the residents of Ashkelon, a large Jewish settlement, responded to his request.[91]

Yes, but still, people were enslaved.  That was not put into the movie (nor is Balian's threat to kill every Muslim in Jerusalem) because these are considered bad things these days, even if they were par for the course in 1187.

I think you're conflating my criticism of the movie with a larger historiographical criticism that I've made before, that is that virtually no one of prominence to live prior to ~1945 can be considered entirely or even largely morally praiseworthy, as almost everyone of prominence held some belief or conducted some action that would be abhorrent to us today (and since we are right, or at least far moreso than ever before, we not only can but must look down upon human history, even though we must also seek to understand it on its own terms).

The latter doesn't have much to do with the movie, except Scott seems to share that belief subconsciously, which is why he is attracted to historical reimaginations where there actually were good people living in 2d century Rome and 12th century Israel.

[Ideologue]

Ide, did you watch the theatrical release or the (supposedly far superior) director's cut?

Director's.  I've never seen the theatrical cut--what I talk about in my review is from third-hand accounts of it.  It appears that the theatrical release was a rather ugly quasi-movie.

The Wiki page for the movie actually does list all (or most of) the scenes not present in the theatrical cut, and going through them, the only one that could be lost without suffering mild to total narrative failure is the post-climax duel between Balian and Guy, which probably would have been better left out even of the DC, as it adds nothing without Guy's death and further confuses me as to Balian's moral code--although upon close analysis his guiding star appears to be the Eleventh Commandment, "Thou shalt not kill a named character (but extras can be slaughtered with vigor)."

Otherwise, the scenes cut include the scenes establishing the sibling relationships of Balian and Godfrey respectively, practically all of Sibylla's development, and all the scenes with Baldwin V entirely, some of the scenes with Baldwin IV, and the lines of dialogue that establish that Balian knows how to design, build and defeat siege engines, which is surely of no importance whatsoever to the plot.

[Martinus]

Ide, I full agree with your point that Saladin was "pretty great" by his contemporary standards, so in order to maintain this narrative in a modern movie, they had to keep him "pretty great" by modern standards. Now, where we differ is that I don't have a particular problem with that, as long as we are talking about an entertainment-focused movie. I wouldn't call it "white-washing" though.

[Maladict]

P.S.  OK, no slavery for the Jerusalemites, that's fine, but where the fuck did that box full of ice come from?  Salah ad-Din's fridge?  Did it come from Circassia with Lawrence?  This has got to be bullshit, right?

No, that apparently happened. Most likely snow carried from a nearby mountain, not an uncommon way of displaying wealth.

[Martinus]

P.S.  OK, no slavery for the Jerusalemites, that's fine, but where the fuck did that box full of ice come from?  Salah ad-Din's fridge?  Did it come from Circassia with Lawrence?  This has got to be bullshit, right?

No, that apparently happened. Most likely snow carried from a nearby mountain, not an uncommon way of displaying wealth.

Yeah. Nero (who is credited with inventing ice cream) had snow carried to Rome from the Alps for his feasts.

[viper37]

Last night I watched Goon, about a young hockey enforcer.  If it was a Canadian production, it's one of the best I've seen.  In other words, a mediocre movie by real world standards.  It couldn't quite decide if it wanted to take hockey goons seriously or not.

I had to check to be sure of the financing, but it is indeed a Canadian movie.
Shot in Winnipeg, directed by a Montrealer, stars a Québécois a a Québécois hockey player.

Best hockey movie since Slapshot

[Martinus]

I gotta say I really love "Downton Abbey". It reminds me a lot of "Brideshead Revisited".

[derspiess]

Re-watching The Pacific-- my brother got me the blu-ray box set for Christmas and I had never actually watched the last three episodes when they originally aired. 

[Viking]

I gotta say I really love "Downton Abbey". It reminds me a lot of "Brideshead Revisited".

Isn't Downton Abbey considerably less ghey and catholic than BR?

(not that I've watched DA and it's been years since I've watched(not read) BR).

[Razgovory]

I thought that Saladin sacked a few towns in his lifetime.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Yes.  But there is a romanticism around him, somewhat like Rommel.

[Neil]

Reservoir Dogs.  Pulp Fiction, for Vincent Vega and in all likelihood Mia Wallace.  Inglorious Basterds, for 1/2 the cast.  And presumably the ladies in Death Proof are spending twenty to life in a TN state pen.

I haven't seen Death Proof.  I'll give you Reservoir Dogs.  Vince was the bad guy in Pulp Fiction.  The Basterds killed the Nazis and won the war, which is a good end.

[CountDeMoney]

I haven't seen Death Proof.

A Kurt Russell role I could totally get behind.

[garbon]

Reservoir Dogs.  Pulp Fiction, for Vincent Vega and in all likelihood Mia Wallace.  Inglorious Basterds, for 1/2 the cast.  And presumably the ladies in Death Proof are spending twenty to life in a TN state pen.

I haven't seen Death Proof.  I'll give you Reservoir Dogs.  Vince was the bad guy in Pulp Fiction.  The Basterds killed the Nazis and won the war, which is a good end.

Yeah I think that what Ide was missing the point that generally, though it may be a long and bloody path with significant conflicts, good wins the day.  See Jackie Brown, Inglorious Basterds and Kill Bill.

[CountDeMoney]

good wins the day.  See Jackie Brown,

Bail bondsmen never win the day.