TV/Movies Megathread

[Josephus]

I would agree Lovecraft feels more important as an influence than good on his own right.

I think I've only read Coldheart Canyon by Barker. It didn't do much for me.

That's not one of his classics, though.
I'd recommend his Books of Blood (collection of short stories) and then working into his classic novels like Weaveworld, Imajica and The Great and Secret Show. I actually might re-read them one of these days (I read them all in my 20s)

[grumbler]

Had a fun discussion with a friend yesterday. Topic was: what was the first "franchise"? Obviously, there are all the ancient myths, which are shared universes, but we were thinking of it in the sense where there's a person or organization that controls the narrative - a keeper of the canon of sorts. As opposed to unrelated authors reusing characters or settings.

Ancient Greek playwrights loved their trilogies (Oresteia, for example), so we left it at that. Dunno if there are better examples, though. We did have a bit of a debate whether Illiad-Odissey constitute a "franchise" by themselves though.

My understanding is that, to be a franchise, people other than the original writer had to use the same fictional place or people.  One writer writing a series isn't a franchise by that definition.

Homer's Fall of Troy mythos was used by Virgil in the Aeneid, for example Aeneas having been a character in The Iliad).

[garbon]

What about the character of Socrates? While Socrates was a real person, certainly some of our representations of him are accounts of a fictional version of him. Like Socrates in The Clouds and Socrates in the Symposium,

[crazy canuck]

Had a fun discussion with a friend yesterday. Topic was: what was the first "franchise"? Obviously, there are all the ancient myths, which are shared universes, but we were thinking of it in the sense where there's a person or organization that controls the narrative - a keeper of the canon of sorts. As opposed to unrelated authors reusing characters or settings.

Ancient Greek playwrights loved their trilogies (Oresteia, for example), so we left it at that. Dunno if there are better examples, though. We did have a bit of a debate whether Illiad-Odissey constitute a "franchise" by themselves though.

My understanding is that, to be a franchise, people other than the original writer had to use the same fictional place or people.  One writer writing a series isn't a franchise by that definition.

Homer's Fall of Troy mythos was used by Virgil in the Aeneid, for example Aeneas having been a character in The Iliad).

But the Homeric material was not written by the original poet (assuming there was an original poet named Homer who originated all the material, which scholars doubt).

The epics were an oral tradition long before it was reduced to writing.  And even then the works attributed to Homer do not constitute the whole of the written canon.  There are a number of epics, lesser known than the Iliad and Odyssey.  Mainly because only fragments of those other works have been found.

[Syt]

So I subbed to Paramount+ on Amazon Prime for Lower Decks. Saw they have the first three episodes of the new Frasier online.

I liked it.

It sure feels weirdly nostalgic that they use the same style of opening, title cards, etc. Not to mention - filming in front of a live studio audience, and very much replicating the visual feel of the original show, down to the lighting. It's very easy to slip back into, but it also feels almost fallen out of time.

I generally like the new characters, but David is a bit OTT for my tastes and feels more of a parody of Niles than anything else. I guess Trevor Einhorn was not available to play Frederick again? Nicholas Lyndhurst (Only Fools and Horses) is a nice addition, even though his character seems quite one-note.

Of course they're warming up some of the old base conflicts of the old series (working class stiff vs. egghead snob, "serious" psychology vs. showmanship reminiscent of Frasier's old spats with Kate Costas, etc.), but I got a few laughs and chuckles out of it. And Frasier's more casual dress (sneakers??? and in Ep. 3 a checkered shirt that would have done Marty Crane proud) takes some getting used to.

It feels more like a nostalgia tour for Kelsey Grammer. Not anywhere near the brilliance of some of the old show's best run, or even the early seasons, but IMHO not worse than some of the low points in the later seasons so far. Mostly it makes me want to go back an re-watch the old show, though.

Edit: Just saw Jack Cutmore-Scott who plays Frasier's son, was born in London. Which I assume is fitting, considering that John Mahoney who played Frasier's dad was from Manchester.

[FunkMonk]

Can't bring myself to watch the Frasier revival. Huge fan of the 90s show but the real strength of the show for me was the wonderful ensemble cast. With none of them returning I just feel like it would be a waste of my time 

[Syt]

Can't bring myself to watch the Frasier revival. Huge fan of the 90s show but the real strength of the show for me was the wonderful ensemble cast. With none of them returning I just feel like it would be a waste of my time 

Fully understand. I mostly fired it up to see how bad it would be. It started rough but it kinda won me over. It's disappointing, though that Frasier has regressed somewhat and is struggling with things he already overcame - reconnecting with an estranged relative who has different goals/ideals, balancing his vanity/being a media personality with his sincere dedication to his profession and wanting to help people ...

[Josquius]

I think that's where I am. Fully expect it to be a car crash and will watch a bit if I ever get the chance but not seeking it out.

[crazy canuck]

Can't bring myself to watch the Frasier revival. Huge fan of the 90s show but the real strength of the show for me was the wonderful ensemble cast. With none of them returning I just feel like it would be a waste of my time 

Agreed, Ros Daphne and the dad made the show for me.

[HVC]

I liked the Niles-Frasier dynamic.

[HVC]

Anyone watch the Beckham documentary? Actually pretty entertaining.

[FunkMonk]

Anyone watch the Beckham documentary? Actually pretty entertaining.

Yeah it was excellent.

Hated hearing Gary Neville speak though 

[Sheilbh]

Only seen the "be honest" clip

[Josephus]

I've enjoyed the Showcase show Billions...it faltered the last couple seasons, but this season has been really good.

[grumbler]

But the Homeric material was not written by the original poet (assuming there was an original poet named Homer who originated all the material, which scholars doubt).

The epics were an oral tradition long before it was reduced to writing.  And even then the works attributed to Homer do not constitute the whole of the written canon.  There are a number of epics, lesser known than the Iliad and Odyssey.  Mainly because only fragments of those other works have been found.

None of that argues against the Homeric sagas as being the first franchise we know of; it, in fact, reinforces the claim.