TV/Movies Megathread

[Oexmelin]

Ok and when that happens we can talk about it.

[celedhring]

Very much this - superhero movies are okay, but a constant parade of them has become tiresome. Not that it will end any time soon, too much cash to be made ...

The problem isn't that there is "too much cash to be made," it is that money, as always, is a coward.  Money sees the 30th consecutive superhero movie as less risky than the first of any other kind of movie.  There's lots of writers, directors, and producers out there with visions of non-superhero big-budget movies, but the money doesn't want to risk the bet that people will go to non-superhero movies.  And the money decides what movie gets made, just like it always has.

That's a big part of it but it's also a self-reinforcing process. Because content based on established IP is a safer bet, it increases the value of the underlying IP.  If you are Mouse Corporation and you've spent billions acquiring that IP, then then it becomes a corporate priority to make those assets earn their keep.

Yeah, and it goes even beyond that. The film divisions of Warner and Disney are actually relatively small parts of massive conglomerates. The film studios create value for IPs through a string of sequels (new characters, settings...) keeping them relevant and in the mind of consumers. Then the other divisions further monetize them: TV shows, merch, theme park rides, etc...- the corporate synergies are really strong (Disney and Warner i.e. have massive TV businesses that *crave* for content), and thus it becomes a priority to keep promoting those IPs. There's actually very little incentive for film studios to spend big on original movies - unless there's a chance of getting a bunch of sequels you're getting very little "IP value" out of them.

[viper37]

The international market. Anything they make now has to appeal broadly across dozens of cultural lines. Superhero films do that.

Only because of relentless marketing, and a constant presence of American pop culture. Heroism may have broad cultural appeal, but it takes many form - and the American Superhero is not some kind of cultural universal. As China continues to pour tremendous resources in the production of their own heroic tales, we may find that the teenage angst that dominates so much of American superhero movies may recede in favor of other moral/political messages.

We'll have Transformers movies every year set in China.  Maybe anime movies too, set in Hong Kong instead of Japan.

[viper37]

Very much this - superhero movies are okay, but a constant parade of them has become tiresome. Not that it will end any time soon, too much cash to be made ...

The problem isn't that there is "too much cash to be made," it is that money, as always, is a coward.  Money sees the 30th consecutive superhero movie as less risky than the first of any other kind of movie.  There's lots of writers, directors, and producers out there with visions of non-superhero big-budget movies, but the money doesn't want to risk the bet that people will go to non-superhero movies.  And the money decides what movie gets made, just like it always has.

That's a big part of it but it's also a self-reinforcing process. Because content based on established IP is a safer bet, it increases the value of the underlying IP.  If you are Mouse Corporation and you've spent billions acquiring that IP, then then it becomes a corporate priority to make those assets earn their keep.

Yeah, and it goes even beyond that. The film divisions of Warner and Disney are actually relatively small parts of massive conglomerates. The film studios create value for IPs through a string of sequels (new characters, settings...) keeping them relevant and in the mind of consumers. Then the other divisions further monetize them: TV shows, merch, theme park rides, etc...- the corporate synergies are really strong (Disney and Warner i.e. have massive TV businesses that *crave* for content), and thus it becomes a priority to keep promoting those IPs. There's actually very little incentive for film studios to spend big on original movies - unless there's a chance of getting a bunch of sequels you're getting very little "IP value" out of them.

And some studios have IPs that need to be produced into movies every X years or they lose that IP (Terminator comes to mind).  That generates endless sequels of dubious quality where the goal is to only keep the IP "alive".

Oh, well, it's not like "Hollywood produces too many sequels" is a recent debate.  I remember talking about that in high school, when Karate Kid II came out.

But, if I have to chose between endless John Wayne-esque westerns and endless Marvel movies, I'll pick Marvel

[Barrister]

Back when they started coming out I'd watch every single Marvel movie that hit the theaters, but nowadays it's much more pick and choose, and I've skipped a lot of them. I believe the last one I watched was Thor: Ragnarok, and Dr. Strange before that. I have not seen either Age of Ultron or Civil War or Infinity War, and to be honest I'm kinda tired of the big massive ones, I find the smaller ones way more interesting.

I guess it's falling on me to defend superhero movies.

Age of Ultron - a bit of a disappointment, honestly.  Can be skipped.
Civil War - the political metaphor is a bit forced, but since most Marvel villains aren't very interesting, it's great fun to just see the heroes battle away at each other.
Infinity War - it's huge, it has everyone in it, for the first time since Loki it has a compelling villain - and [spoiler]the bad guy wins in the end[/spoiler]

And movies that came out since then you didn't mention:
Ant Man / Ant Man 2 - leans heavily in the comedy.  Very enjoyable.
Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - has Kurt Russell in it.  Up to you if that's a selling feature or not.
Black Panther - hey that was a genuine cultural moment.  It was nominated for Best Picture!  Worth seeing
Captain Marvel - eh it was good, nothing special

It's fine to be selective, but there are some good movies out there if you're interested.

[Malthus]

And some studios have IPs that need to be produced into movies every X years or they lose that IP (Terminator comes to mind).  That generates endless sequels of dubious quality where the goal is to only keep the IP "alive".

Oh, well, it's not like "Hollywood produces too many sequels" is a recent debate.  I remember talking about that in high school, when Karate Kid II came out.

But, if I have to chose between endless John Wayne-esque westerns and endless Marvel movies, I'll pick Marvel

Hey, with new technology, in the future they will be able to cast John Wayne in endless Marvel movies. 

With the global influence of China on the rise, plus the geopolitical importance of spreading Chinese influence into central Asia via entertainment, I predict a new superhero - John Wayne as the new Marvel superhero, Ghengis Khan!

A preview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Kpv1kqjvpw

[Syt]

A long-ish look back at Farscape

https://io9.gizmodo.com/a-look-back-at-farscape-aliens-puppets-and-criminals-1833716459

Also confirms that the similarity in tone between Farscape and Guardians of the Galaxy that I noticed when I saw it in the the theater was not accidental.

[Savonarola]

David Bowie: The Man Who Changed the World (2016)

A quick and cheap cash-in documentary on Bowie made soon after his death.  They didn't even get the license for any of his music; so there's sort of Bowie-eque music playing throughout.  They do have some archival interviews with Bowie and some from some of the people who knew him in the early days; but, except for Iggy Pop, there's no interviews with the better known artists he'd worked with (no Lou Reed, Ian Hunter, Mick Ronson, Eno, Nile Rogers, Mick Jagger, Mike Garson or even Bing Crosby). 

They did have an archival interview with Andrew Lloyd Weber, of all people.  Weber couldn't stand Bowie's music and realized he had lost touch with rock and roll, which is why he went from making bad rock operas to making bad musicals.  (Bowie also hated Andrew Lloyd Weber's music and walked out at intermission of "Jesus Christ Superstar.)

[Valmy]

Ok and when that happens we can talk about it.

I am just observing what is going on right now. When we are all being brainwashed by Chinese State propaganda we can talk about that then. Just because you are making a prediction does not mean it is certain to happen.

[Oexmelin]

I am just observing what is going on right now. When we are all being brainwashed by Chinese State propaganda we can talk about that then. Just because you are making a prediction does not mean it is certain to happen.

The point was not the prediction. My point was that Superhero movies are not popular because they inherently appeal to broad cultural consensus, but because their particular tone, genre, and heroes are, and have been, actively and aggressively promoted. But I supposeI could have simply just dismissed your comment. 

[HVC]

Super hero's are popular now for the same reason hero's have always been popular. They have fun adventures and hit people/things. Be it heracles, Gilgamesh, or Thor.

[Savonarola]

So I saw the preview for that film and was really underwhelmed by it. I thought "who the fuck ever heard of this Captain Marvel character? This will probably bomb with some generic looking superhero nobody has ever heard of. This genre is getting over-saturated and played out."

And boy was I ever fucking wrong. But I guess I should have known after "Aquaman" was a smash hit. People still just cannot get enough superheroes I guess.

It's the penultimate movie in the Avengers saga so it was going to be a hit; and then all the... Antisocial Justice Warriors?  Edgelords?  Incels? all hated on it before it was released, so that guaranteed Disney was going to have a monster hit.

[Eddie Teach]

What does the term "edgelord" mean, anyway?

[Valmy]

I am just observing what is going on right now. When we are all being brainwashed by Chinese State propaganda we can talk about that then. Just because you are making a prediction does not mean it is certain to happen.

The point was not the prediction. My point was that Superhero movies are not popular because they inherently appeal to broad cultural consensus, but because their particular tone, genre, and heroes are, and have been, actively and aggressively promoted. But I supposeI could have simply just dismissed your comment. 

It could easily be both things Oex, some parts of our culture resonate and do far better overseas than others.

[Savonarola]

What does the term "edgelord" mean, anyway?

From Urban Dictionary:

Edgelord
A poster on an Internet forum, (particularly 4chan) who expresses opinions which are either strongly nihilistic, ("life has no meaning," or Tyler Durden's special snowflake speech from the film Fight Club being probably the two main examples) or contain references to Hitler, Nazism, fascism, or other taboo topics which are deliberately intended to shock or offend readers.

The term "edgelord," is a noun, which came from the previous adjective, "edgy," which described the above behaviour.