TV/Movies Megathread

[HVC]

Are Carthaginians Black in North American pop-culture?

If cleopatra is why not the barca's?

[viper37]

Are Carthaginians Black in North American pop-culture?

They were Africans.  Aren't all Africans black?  

Not gonna get on this again.

We're still paying the price for John Wayne, I guess.

[FunkMonk]

Read a retrospective review on the Guardian website of the 2003 Master and Commander movie and felt obliged to watch it again. Feels like an even better movie now than when I first watched it 20 years ago.

[The Brain]

It's hard to shake the feeling that Hollywood thinks it's fine to ride roughshod over race concerns as long as the historical characters are Africans and not Europeans or Americans. Old habits die hard I guess.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Hollywood being dumbfucks again, news at 11.

[Josquius]

If they were being race neutral then that would be fine. All the whinging about bridgerton et al deserves nought more than a

I get the feeling however they're actually trying to be historic.
So sigh.

At least with black Egyptians there actually were a lot of people in ancient Egypt which Americans would call black. Cleopatra was absolutely not one of these.

[garbon]

We can't have black people in white films.

[Josquius]

We can't have black people in white films.

I mean, you could. Perfectly feasible one of Hannibals bodyguards or some other major in the story but not in the history character could be black.
Possible even some historic folks could be, I don't know enough (anything) of the actual characters beyond the man himself.

Of course equal with black Hannibal being daft so too would white Hannibal be.

[garbon]

We can't have black people in white films.

I mean, you could. Perfectly feasible one of Hannibals bodyguards or some other major in the story but not in the history character could be black.
Possible even some historic folks could be, I don't know enough (anything) of the actual characters beyond the man himself.

Of course equal with black Hannibal being daft so too would white Hannibal be.

So what is with Languish's recent teeth gnashing?

[Josquius]

We can't have black people in white films.

I mean, you could. Perfectly feasible one of Hannibals bodyguards or some other major in the story but not in the history character could be black.
Possible even some historic folks could be, I don't know enough (anything) of the actual characters beyond the man himself.

Of course equal with black Hannibal being daft so too would white Hannibal be.

So what is with Languish's recent teeth gnashing?

A valuable opportunity to laugh at teh woke and feel superior to the left eyes who definitely all approve of this.

[garbon]

A valuable opportunity to laugh at teh woke and feel superior to the left eyes who definitely all approve of this.

Who approve of a famous actor being given a role?

I'm not going to call it racism but it is odd how several of you have leapt to the idea there must be a pernicious reason for giving a role to a famous actor. Starting with Jacob's coy questions about if Americans think Carthiginians to black to Brain's dismissive comments on Hollywood, Africans and race to your "I get the feeling however they're actually trying to be historic.So sigh."

Wtf gives with that? Especially when the property we are talking is Gladiator - one that starred a fictional character and took its own fair liberties with history. But I guess it at least it explained its top mast black actor was supposed to be a Nubian.

Note, I think Bridgerton fucked up on race when it stopped being about colour blind casting and main its own in-universe explanation for how it had prominent black nobles/the Queen.

Also, I'm surprised if Jacob is in the crew laughing at 'wokery'.

[The Brain]

Hollywood has a history of treating African characters in a less than exemplary fashion. It is telling that they cast a white actor as Napoleon. But a famous African general? Then they are suddenly comfortable with racially insensitive casting.

[garbon]

Hollywood has a history of treating African characters in a less than exemplary fashion. It is telling that they cast a white actor as Napoleon. But a famous African general? Then they are suddenly comfortable with racially insensitive casting.

I'll grant it is a new argument to see someone rejecting a black actor on the grounds of protecting African historiography* but a rather odd take from you.

*though I imagine there have been such arguments made before if someone was casting a black Cleopatra.

[The Brain]

Hollywood has a history of treating African characters in a less than exemplary fashion. It is telling that they cast a white actor as Napoleon. But a famous African general? Then they are suddenly comfortable with racially insensitive casting.

I'll grant it is a new argument to see someone rejecting a black actor on the grounds of protecting African historiography* but a rather odd take from you.

*though I imagine there have been such arguments made before if someone was casting a black Cleopatra.

I don't see it as odd. Regardless of how important or unimportant reaonably historical casting is considered to be (and I don't have a problem with any chosen position on that scale), making it different just because it's about Africans leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I get why it can happen, Africans in general and North Africans in particular don't have a strong voice in Western cultural discourse. To me though that's not a great reason to disregard their concerns while being sensitive to for instance concerns of Europeans.

[Josquius]

Who approve of a famous actor being given a role?

I'm not going to call it racism but it is odd how several of you have leapt to the idea there must be a pernicious reason for giving a role to a famous actor. Starting with Jacob's coy questions about if Americans think Carthiginians to black to Brain's dismissive comments on Hollywood, Africans and race to your "I get the feeling however they're actually trying to be historic.So sigh."

Wtf gives with that? Especially when the property we are talking is Gladiator - one that starred a fictional character and took its own fair liberties with history. But I guess it at least it explained its top mast black actor was supposed to be a Nubian.

Note, I think Bridgerton fucked up on race when it stopped being about colour blind casting and main its own in-universe explanation for how it had prominent black nobles/the Queen.

Generally I'd say there are two acceptable approaches in casting.

1: Race blind. Just cast actors for their acting. This does come in various levels I must say; always bothers me a bit when you have a clearly East Asian guy with a black mother and blonde white father.
2: Cast someone who actually looks the part. Or with (questionable) makeup can be made to look close enough in such a way that the audience will accept it.

This is a big area of controversy these days of course.
At one extreme, which I really disagree with, my point 2 is totally forbidden. You can't cast a Chinese actress, even if she has a stereotypically Japanese look, as a Japanese character. I'm very much in the Ben Kingsley Party on this.

It's also well known that many Americans have a questionable grasp of geography and believe Africa=black. I've heard North Africans lament this many times (often racistly to be fair).

Assuming they aren't taking option 1, as this isn't usually done with serious historic movies (if they are then all is forgiven)...

Its certainly feasible they could have cast an actor who identifies as black in the part- an on the lighter side mixed guy could easily pass for North African (IIRC didn't you use to get into Asian groups?).
But Denzel? No. He does not fit.

Which does lead me to deduce its a poor grasp of geography at work/relying on the audience having this. And/or courting controversy, which after the Ghostbusters remake does seem to be a pretty common occurrence (Shehulk showed this well). Whip up the racists and they help to build buzz and support for the film from others.

I'm not losing a second of sleep over this. Its still within the "Meh" category for stuff I care about. But its a potentially curious and negative thing.

Also, I'm surprised if Jacob is in the crew laughing at 'wokery'.

I didn't mean him