TV/Movies Megathread

[garbon]

Outrage might make sense if they said we casted Denzel as we wanted a black lead for the role as it is historical. But all we know so far is they consider Vin Diesel and then picked Denzel.

Do you feel that taking north African historical figures and race swapping them is culture appropriation or at least culturally incentive?

A corralary question to that, would you feel that it's wrong to race swap a black historical character for another race in colorblind casting? Would your answer change if it was a  common occurrence?

All of this strikes me as disingenuous as like I said to Tamas, I don't think you would raise any of this had they announced Hannibal played by a white man.

It rubs the wrong way that you are suddenly concerned when a black actor has been cast. And then announce it must have been done on historical ignorance of the skin tone of historical characters even though they considered Vin Diesel who has a rather different look from Denzel.

On colourblindness check my earlier post referencing non-whites.

[garbon]

Considering Vin Diesel for a role is a plus?

Suggests they didn't have one specific look in mind as has been assumed.

[Sheilbh]

On the upside this prompted me to look at Gladiator 2 and I honestly thought Sir Derek Jacobi was dead. So that was a nice surprise

[Admiral Yi]

It's also well known that many Americans have a questionable grasp of geography and believe Africa=black. I've heard North Africans lament this many times (often racistly to be fair).

 

Tony Shalloub as Hannibal. 

[The Brain]

Considering Vin Diesel for a role is a plus?

Suggests they didn't have one specific look in mind as has been assumed.

Who assumed this?

[HVC]

Outrage might make sense if they said we casted Denzel as we wanted a black lead for the role as it is historical. But all we know so far is they consider Vin Diesel and then picked Denzel.

Do you feel that taking north African historical figures and race swapping them is culture appropriation or at least culturally incentive?

A corralary question to that, would you feel that it's wrong to race swap a black historical character for another race in colorblind casting? Would your answer change if it was a  common occurrence?

All of this strikes me as disingenuous as like I said to Tamas, I don't think you would raise any of this had they announced Hannibal played by a white man.

It rubs the wrong way that you are suddenly concerned when a black actor has been cast. And then announce it must have been done on historical ignorance of the skin tone of historical characters even though they considered Vin Diesel who has a rather different look from Denzel.

On colourblindness check my earlier post referencing non-whites.

You can find me disingenuous, that's your prerogative if it helps you.  Black washing North African culture and history irks me, so I admit my bias. Diesel looks racially ambiguous, although I do believe he identifies as black (his step dad was black if that helps you).

And I never said race swap a black character with a white one, I said other race, could be a minority such as Asian or Indian. But that's your own bias showing. Or are other minorities not worthy of roles too?

[garbon]

Outrage might make sense if they said we casted Denzel as we wanted a black lead for the role as it is historical. But all we know so far is they consider Vin Diesel and then picked Denzel.

Do you feel that taking north African historical figures and race swapping them is culture appropriation or at least culturally incentive?

A corralary question to that, would you feel that it's wrong to race swap a black historical character for another race in colorblind casting? Would your answer change if it was a  common occurrence?

All of this strikes me as disingenuous as like I said to Tamas, I don't think you would raise any of this had they announced Hannibal played by a white man.

It rubs the wrong way that you are suddenly concerned when a black actor has been cast. And then announce it must have been done on historical ignorance of the skin tone of historical characters even though they considered Vin Diesel who has a rather different look from Denzel.

On colourblindness check my earlier post referencing non-whites.

You can find me disingenuous, that's your prerogative if it helps you.  Black washing North African culture and history irks me, so I admit my bias. Diesel looks racially ambiguous, although I do believe he identifies as black (his step dad was black if that helps you).

And I never said race swap a black character with a white one, I said other race, could be a minority such as Asian or Indian. But that's your own bias showing. Or are other minorities not worthy of roles too?

Would you have complained about casting if they had chosen a white actor instead of Denzel? I don't think you would have.

[Jacob]

Starting with Jacob's coy questions about if Americans think Carthiginians ...

Also, I'm surprised if Jacob is in the crew laughing at 'wokery'.

Yeah... I was wondering if there existed a strain of thought about Carthaginians equivalent to the "Cleopatra and the pyramid builders were Black" phenomenon. The question was poorly worded.

I'm completely unconcerned about whether Wesley Snipes is cast as Hannibal or not, whatever the reason may be.

[HVC]

Outrage might make sense if they said we casted Denzel as we wanted a black lead for the role as it is historical. But all we know so far is they consider Vin Diesel and then picked Denzel.

Do you feel that taking north African historical figures and race swapping them is culture appropriation or at least culturally incentive?

A corralary question to that, would you feel that it's wrong to race swap a black historical character for another race in colorblind casting? Would your answer change if it was a  common occurrence?

All of this strikes me as disingenuous as like I said to Tamas, I don't think you would raise any of this had they announced Hannibal played by a white man.

It rubs the wrong way that you are suddenly concerned when a black actor has been cast. And then announce it must have been done on historical ignorance of the skin tone of historical characters even though they considered Vin Diesel who has a rather different look from Denzel.

On colourblindness check my earlier post referencing non-whites.

You can find me disingenuous, that's your prerogative if it helps you.  Black washing North African culture and history irks me, so I admit my bias. Diesel looks racially ambiguous, although I do believe he identifies as black (his step dad was black if that helps you).

And I never said race swap a black character with a white one, I said other race, could be a minority such as Asian or Indian. But that's your own bias showing. Or are other minorities not worthy of roles too?

Would you have complained about casting if they had chosen a white actor instead of Denzel? I don't think you would have.

If they cast a disambiguous white actor like scarlet johanson (meta ) or Benedict Cumberbatch I would have yes. If it was someone with more melanin I probably wouldn't know or care enough to check, but if told it would annoy me too.

But the main crux of my annoyance isn't colourblind casting on its own. It's the theme of black washing North Africans. Something they themselves have rallied against. Something you keep pointedly side stepping. So I ask again is " Do you feel that taking north African historical figures and race swapping them is culture appropriation or at least culturally incentive?". If it is then even "innocently" black washing is harmful and wrong. If you don't think it is then our view points are too divergent to come to an agreement.

But thanks for assuming I'm racist, I appreciate it.

[Admiral Yi]

But the main crux of my annoyance isn't colourblind casting on its own. It's the theme of black washing North Africans.

Is this a thing?  All I can think of is Lawrence Fishburne playing Othello.

[HVC]

But the main crux of my annoyance isn't colourblind casting on its own. It's the theme of black washing North Africans.

Is this a thing?  All I can think of is Lawrence Fishburne playing Othello.

See Jacob's post. It's a thing for cleopatra and Egyptians in general (although I know there was one black dynasty, but may have been more). I've seen it for Phoenicians as well. It's a personal annoyance. According to garbon that makes me racist. So be it.

[Admiral Yi]

See Jacob's post. It's a thing for cleopatra and Egyptians in general (although I know there was one black dynasty, but may have been more). I've seen it for Phoenicians as well. It's a personal annoyance. According to garbon that makes me racist. So be it.

Are you talking about Hollywood or Al Sharpton?

[HVC]

See Jacob's post. It's a thing for cleopatra and Egyptians in general (although I know there was one black dynasty, but may have been more). I've seen it for Phoenicians as well. It's a personal annoyance. According to garbon that makes me racist. So be it.

Are you talking about Hollywood or Al Sharpton?

Both, but it becomes more apparent (and prevalent) through Hollywood. Personal views can be wrong but not necessarily insidious. Media and Hollywood continuing with the theme can be. See the hubbub with Jada cleopatra documentary where the director and actress were calling Egyptians and other historians racist for not believing cleopatra was black.

[The Brain]

It's a very old Western idea that crops up again and again, that local natives cannot possibly have conceived and achieved impressive works and that foreigners, as if by magic often of the person's own race, must have done so. From Great Zimbabwe being the work of Solomon to Germans obviously having helped plan Pearl Harbor, it's a story on repeat.

[garbon]

Outrage might make sense if they said we casted Denzel as we wanted a black lead for the role as it is historical. But all we know so far is they consider Vin Diesel and then picked Denzel.

Do you feel that taking north African historical figures and race swapping them is culture appropriation or at least culturally incentive?

A corralary question to that, would you feel that it's wrong to race swap a black historical character for another race in colorblind casting? Would your answer change if it was a  common occurrence?

All of this strikes me as disingenuous as like I said to Tamas, I don't think you would raise any of this had they announced Hannibal played by a white man.

It rubs the wrong way that you are suddenly concerned when a black actor has been cast. And then announce it must have been done on historical ignorance of the skin tone of historical characters even though they considered Vin Diesel who has a rather different look from Denzel.

On colourblindness check my earlier post referencing non-whites.

You can find me disingenuous, that's your prerogative if it helps you.  Black washing North African culture and history irks me, so I admit my bias. Diesel looks racially ambiguous, although I do believe he identifies as black (his step dad was black if that helps you).

And I never said race swap a black character with a white one, I said other race, could be a minority such as Asian or Indian. But that's your own bias showing. Or are other minorities not worthy of roles too?

Would you have complained about casting if they had chosen a white actor instead of Denzel? I don't think you would have.

If they cast a disambiguous white actor like scarlet johanson (meta ) or Benedict Cumberbatch I would have yes. If it was someone with more melanin I probably wouldn't know or care enough to check, but if told it would annoy me too.

But the main crux of my annoyance isn't colourblind casting on its own. It's the theme of black washing North Africans. Something they themselves have rallied against. Something you keep pointedly side stepping. So I ask again is " Do you feel that taking north African historical figures and race swapping them is culture appropriation or at least culturally incentive?". If it is then even "innocently" black washing is harmful and wrong. If you don't think it is then our view points are too divergent to come to an agreement.

But thanks for assuming I'm racist, I appreciate it.

I've sidestepped because I'm not interested in playing your game. I think your game is strange because you state you are hung up on blackwashing but don't seem all that concerned about say whitewashing (or at least I don't recall much of that from you).

I will say that I think it is strange to spend time projecting modern thoughts on racial construction to choice of actor of historical figures from 2000 years ago.

BTW, I pointedly said I was not calling such hang ups racist.