TV/Movies Megathread

[The Larch]

Also a issue for marvel is they've used up the a list. The super heroes left to them are... Not good. Excepting x men and fantastic 4 of course where there's other issues.

They were able to turn a bunch of nobodies only the hard-core nerds knew about like the Guardians of the Galaxy into big stars. And when the MCU started out they were limited to their 2nd rank characters because their true stars, Spiderman and the X Men, were not available to them. How popular the original characters are is very secondary.

[celedhring]

Also a issue for marvel is they've used up the a list. The super heroes left to them are... Not good. Excepting x men and fantastic 4 of course where there's other issues.

They were able to turn a bunch of nobodies only the hard-core nerds knew about like the Guardians of the Galaxy into big stars. And when the MCU started out they were limited to their 2nd rank characters because their true stars, Spiderman and the X Men were not available to them. How popular the original characters are is very secondary.

Yeah they turned Iron Man (!!) in one of the most popular movie characters of the past 15 years. He was a C-lister at best.

I'm surprised there's nothing with the X-Men in their pipeline (besides Jackman being in the next Deadpool movie). That's something that could attract my interest.

[celedhring]

There are more than a handful of criticisms, essays and articles blaming the MCU of being so bland, formulaic and soul-less as to leave very little behind them that is not linked to the business side of movie making.

I believe I first realized this when I read somebody complaining that their soundtracks were so generic that there is not a single iconic music piece in them, compare and contrast with the Batman and Superman themes, for instance.

Yeah. I remember the Captain Marvel movie. This is a woman suffering from recurring nightmares that gets mental-probed and discovers her life is a lie, then is marooned on Earth without nobody to get help from. And of course, she starts wisecracking. It makes no sense for her character to do that, but it's the Marvel formula.

Regarding soundtracks... in general, yes, but The Avengers theme has become rather iconic. It's one of the few movie themes of the past decade that I can hum.

[Sheilbh]

That's another old man complaint - I think Zimmer's Inceptions soundtrack was great but is now the style for so many films. We need to get some actual themes back.

[Josquius]

Also a issue for marvel is they've used up the a list. The super heroes left to them are... Not good. Excepting x men and fantastic 4 of course where there's other issues.

They were able to turn a bunch of nobodies only the hard-core nerds knew about like the Guardians of the Galaxy into big stars. And when the MCU started out they were limited to their 2nd rank characters because their true stars, Spiderman and the X Men, were not available to them. How popular the original characters are is very secondary.

True, but I do think they chose their nobodies carefully there.
Yes they were going beyond the front liners and into the backup heroes but they chose ones that were interesting and would make good films.
With what they've got left...

[Jacob]

The culture is stuck. Has been for a while now it feels. Just endless IP recycling.

I reckon it's the inevitable results of our IP laws...

1) Strict IP ownership limits creative iteration.

2) Because IP is primarily a capitalist asset, it is being managed and monetized as such. Obviously shareholders expect strategies maximizing profit while minimizing risk. Endless IP recycling is the natural end-state in such a scenario.

[The Brain]

Copyright laws look the way they do because society doesn't think art is very important.

[Jacob]

Copyright laws look the way they do because society doesn't think art is very important.

More or less. Copyright laws reflect what society values about art.

[celedhring]

The culture is stuck. Has been for a while now it feels. Just endless IP recycling.

I reckon it's the inevitable results of our IP laws...

1) Strict IP ownership limits creative iteration.

2) Because IP is primarily a capitalist asset, it is being managed and monetized as such. Obviously shareholders expect strategies maximizing profit while minimizing risk. Endless IP recycling is the natural end-state in such a scenario.

I don't think 1) is true though. IP laws are not that strict. Yes, you can't write your own Batman comics, but you can take inspiration from them and iterate in the same concept of hero - there are several examples. What happens is that original creations have a much harder time reaching the marketplace because of 2)

In my opinion, the absurdly long expiration periods in the current IP laws make franchises much more valuable assets than they would be otherwise.

[Barrister]

The culture is stuck. Has been for a while now it feels. Just endless IP recycling.

I reckon it's the inevitable results of our IP laws...

1) Strict IP ownership limits creative iteration.

2) Because IP is primarily a capitalist asset, it is being managed and monetized as such. Obviously shareholders expect strategies maximizing profit while minimizing risk. Endless IP recycling is the natural end-state in such a scenario.

I don't agree.

For starters - what do you mean by "strict IP laws"?  I think you mean lengthy copyright, which is life of the author plus 70 years.

But what if you had a shorter period?  I mean if it was life +50 years LOTR would be hitting public domain this year (Tolkein died in 1973).

If LOTR was in the public domain - do you think we'd get less LOTR content, or more?  My guess is more.

I mean it's not like we have a shortage of works based on public domain IP such as Sherlock Holmes or Christmas Carol.

[viper37]

none of those desperate "I'm going to build my own franchise, with blackjack and hookers" attempts has actually succeeded.

Lord of the Rings is a commercial success.
John Wick has 4 movies and a future tv series I think, or another spin off movie coming.

None of those are fully franchised yet. Wick is just a successful movie series, Rings of Power is just a single season of a show with mixed - at best - word of mouth. They both still have a bit to go.

The only one is Star Trek, which has a bunch of TV shows going which I assume are successful since they keep making more of them. The only thing lacking is movies (but I believe rights are an issue here).

Lord of the Rings is 3 movies, + 3 movies for the Hobbit, + at least 2 seasons for Rings of Power.

John Wick is 4 movies + a tv series.  ST was called a franchise when there was a tv series and a couple of movies.

Star Trek has multiple movies over the years in different universes.

[celedhring]

If LOTR was in the public domain - do you think we'd get less LOTR content, or more?  My guess is more.

You're kinda getting that already since the media rights are split (Tolkien sold the movie rights in the 1960s, and from those spawned the Bakshi/Jackson movies and whatever Warned does now), and the Tolkien estate retained the TV rights, which they licensed to Amazon for RoP.

Still, I believe that with shorter expiration times you wouldn't get so much double-downing on franchises by multimedia corporations, since they couldn't fully control the IP.

[Josquius]

On expiring ips....
Anyone seen the apparently so terrible it's good whinnie the poo horror film?

Things seem to be getting really complex over the coming years with several popular characters becoming public domain but only in limited versions.

[Barrister]

Things seem to be getting really complex over the coming years with several popular characters becoming public domain but only in limited versions.

Legally speaking it's kind of fascinating.

As I understand it most of Sherlock Holmes is public domain, but not the later stories.  So anyone wanting to use Sherlock Holmes has to be careful not to use characters or elements introduced in those later stories.

Or Mickey Mouse is (or will shortly be) in the public domain - but only the Steamboat Willie version, which is hardly the most familiar version of the character.

[Jacob]

I don't agree.

Which part don't you agree with?

For starters - what do you mean by "strict IP laws"?  I think you mean lengthy copyright, which is life of the author plus 70 years.

Yeah lengthy copyright is a big part of it, so that's what I mean, but also the general mindspace where creative activity is about generating "IP" and owning "IP" is about efficiently exploiting it. I mean, there's always been a business built on art - and it's often been cynical in a number of ways.

Still at this point being "an IP holder" is a full-fledged business model in a way I think is relatively new. There are any number of companies whose entire business is buying IP and licensing it out. At the same time, there are many other companies whose approach to creating "content" is honed in on generating

I'm no lawyer, so I can't point to the legal aspect in more than very broad strokes (and likely missing nuance) - but ultimately the idea of IP is a social construct created by legislation. I'm fairly comfortable saying that legislation is a significant part of how these businesses approach creativity, and that approach is massively directed towards "generating IP" in a way that meets businees priorities on how to turn IP rights into cash.

From the point of view of "a creative" that definitely has an impact on how ideas and output are shaped, and their chances of making it through the many many hoops from concept to actually being created.

That said, it's obviously also a social, business model, and generally economical development.

Interestingly, at least to me, it seems almost all of the top tier IP that's being exploited so efficiently were created before the current laser honed "build big IP and exploit it massively" model of business really hit its stride.

But what if you had a shorter period?  I mean if it was life +50 years LOTR would be hitting public domain this year (Tolkein died in 1973).

If LOTR was in the public domain - do you think we'd get less LOTR content, or more?  My guess is more.

I mean it's not like we have a shortage of works based on public domain IP such as Sherlock Holmes or Christmas Carol.

Indeed. Some of it good, some of it bad, some of it wacky... but I think we'd see a wider variety and more creativity. Certainly, for LotR I think we'd be seeing a lot more fan and indie projects of various kinds. But probably also a bunch of derivative crap.