TV/Movies Megathread

[Darth Wagtaros]

At least,  I read the book, because I feel so sorry for anyone who tried to make sense of it without the book. It was incomprehensible.

Good point.  Part of my enjoyment was seeing Lynch completely miss the point of the book.  Kinda like Return of the King, actually.

The Rankin Bass one or the more recent Jackson one?

[Malthus]

At least,  I read the book, because I feel so sorry for anyone who tried to make sense of it without the book. It was incomprehensible.

Good point.  Part of my enjoyment was seeing Lynch completely miss the point of the book.  Kinda like Return of the King, actually.

The Rankin Bass one or the more recent Jackson one?

Everyone loves the Rankin Bass version!

"Where there's a whip ... there's a way!" 😀

[Razgovory]

I didn't like Dune either.  I tried to read it during Highschool and gave up.  I later read as an adult but it still wasn't very good.  There was a lot that annoyed me, the emperor is clearly stated that he's a "political animal" but his plot to destroy a rival house is convoluted and stupid.  There is a classification of doctors that are defined as incapable of betraying their charges (I think they were called "suck doctors" which should be a good enough of a indication that you shouldn't hire them), but some of the bad guys kidnap the doctors wife and thus gets him to betray his employers.  Gee, why didn't anyone else think of that?

[Josquius]

I wouldn't rank Dune the best sci-fi novel ever. In fact, I tried reading it in my teens, but aborted it. Only picked it up a few months ago when I heard they were making a new film, and everyone was getting excited.
I thought it was OK. Had an interesting premise, but, especially towards the end, got bogged down in heavy spiritual mumbo jumbo. I haven't bothered yet with any of its sequels.

Its one of those things like Citizen Kane as one of the best films ever. Its taken as a matter of common faith but looked at objectively as a work standing on its own merits...meh. Its greatness comes from the massive influence it has had on others and how many conventions it started.
I liked the original Dune but I did get lost at some point in the first or second sequel iirc.

[The Brain]

I didn't like Dune either.  I tried to read it during Highschool and gave up.  I later read as an adult but it still wasn't very good.  There was a lot that annoyed me, the emperor is clearly stated that he's a "political animal" but his plot to destroy a rival house is convoluted and stupid.  There is a classification of doctors that are defined as incapable of betraying their charges (I think they were called "suck doctors" which should be a good enough of a indication that you shouldn't hire them), but some of the bad guys kidnap the doctors wife and thus gets him to betray his employers.  Gee, why didn't anyone else think of that?

Much like LOTR you're not supposed to think too much about things. I found the book reasonably enjoyable, even if it is a confused mess.

[Eddie Teach]

I wouldn't rank Dune the best sci-fi novel ever. In fact, I tried reading it in my teens, but aborted it. Only picked it up a few months ago when I heard they were making a new film, and everyone was getting excited.
I thought it was OK. Had an interesting premise, but, especially towards the end, got bogged down in heavy spiritual mumbo jumbo. I haven't bothered yet with any of its sequels.

Its one of those things like Citizen Kane as one of the best films ever.

I don't think Dune's reputation is that great.

[Barrister]

Its one of those things like Citizen Kane as one of the best films ever. Its taken as a matter of common faith but looked at objectively as a work standing on its own merits...meh.

[The Minsky Moment]

I didn't like Dune either.  I tried to read it during Highschool and gave up.  I later read as an adult but it still wasn't very good.  There was a lot that annoyed me, the emperor is clearly stated that he's a "political animal" but his plot to destroy a rival house is convoluted and stupid.  There is a classification of doctors that are defined as incapable of betraying their charges (I think they were called "suck doctors" which should be a good enough of a indication that you shouldn't hire them), but some of the bad guys kidnap the doctors wife and thus gets him to betray his employers.  Gee, why didn't anyone else think of that?

The political plot IIRC was pretty straightforward; the Atreides see it coming but feudal convention prevents them from avoiding it.  As for the doctor, it is implied that his relationship with his wife goes beyond the usual (i.e. that she used her powers to bind him in some way that could undermine the conditioning).

[celedhring]

Its one of those things like Citizen Kane as one of the best films ever. Its taken as a matter of common faith but looked at objectively as a work standing on its own merits...meh.

Tyr and his awful takes

Just on the purely technical level there's precious few films with that kind of camerawork. And this one was made 80 years ago.

From a narrative standpoint, the story of Charles Foster Kane is one of those "great american stories" that's culturally significant.

[Duque de Bragança]

Its one of those things like Citizen Kane as one of the best films ever. Its taken as a matter of common faith but looked at objectively as a work standing on its own merits...meh. Its greatness comes from the massive influence it has had on others and how many conventions it started.

[Sheilbh]

Tyr and his awful takes

Just on the purely technical level there's precious few films with that kind of camerawork. And this one was made 80 years ago.

From a narrative standpoint, the story of Charles Foster Kane is one of those "great american stories" that's culturally significant.

I think it's quite a good film even apart from the technical level. But it is one of those films where if you're a certain age (and I am) you've first encountered it through the memes or the Simpsons

[Barrister]

I think it's quite a good film even apart from the technical level. But it is one of those films where if you're a certain age (and I am) you've first encountered it through the memes or the Simpsons

I get that.  You're unlikely to be surprised that Rosebud was the name of his sled, too.

But I don't understand how that would it any less a brilliant film.  Even if you didn't know how many of the camera tricks of framing was invented in that movie.

[Darth Wagtaros]

I think it's quite a good film even apart from the technical level. But it is one of those films where if you're a certain age (and I am) you've first encountered it through the memes or the Simpsons

I get that.  You're unlikely to be surprised that Rosebud was the name of his sled, too.

But I don't understand how that would it any less a brilliant film.  Even if you didn't know how many of the camera tricks of framing was invented in that movie.

It actually may also have been a pet name for his lover's anatomy.

[crazy canuck]

I didn't like Dune either.  I tried to read it during Highschool and gave up.  I later read as an adult but it still wasn't very good.  There was a lot that annoyed me, the emperor is clearly stated that he's a "political animal" but his plot to destroy a rival house is convoluted and stupid.  There is a classification of doctors that are defined as incapable of betraying their charges (I think they were called "suck doctors" which should be a good enough of a indication that you shouldn't hire them), but some of the bad guys kidnap the doctors wife and thus gets him to betray his employers.  Gee, why didn't anyone else think of that?

A few things here.

The thing you were trying to remember is Suk conditioning.  Not a suck doctor 

It was part of the training for all Imperial physicians.  It is not that it did not occur to anyone to check on the doctor's wife.  Everyone thought his wife had been killed by the Harkonnens.  Even the Doctor at first.  It was part of the elaborate plot conceived by the Harkonnen mentat.  It fooled even the Duke consort who was herself a Bene Gesserit.  What she sensed was the doctors hatred of the Harkonnens.  Which was entirely accurate, but also masked the fact his Suk conditioning had a flaw.

As for the Emporer's plot, it is clumsy in the movie and that may be what you are remembering.  In the book it is well executed.  I did in fact work.  The book is about an insurgency which arose after the plot to destroy House Atreides succeeded.

[The Minsky Moment]

Citizen Kane fully merits its reputation.

Dune is a very much at the top end of SciFi, although its relative position may recede as there seems to be a trend for the genre to attract higher quality writers over time.

The comparison to LOTR is a bit apples to oranges - both involve extensive world building but that's about it.  No surprise that Tolkien is the superior English prose stylist.  Tolkien's world is more meticulously thought out, but he had the advantage of borrowing heavily from existing folk legends.  Herbert's Dune is a really creative act of the imagination - I guess Asimov pointed the way with a sort of Space Roman Empire and a sort of space feudal Europe in Foundation but Herbert goes way beyond that.

There is no question that reading the Dune series again in my late 20s after having read it before in my teens was a bit of a comedown: the plot seams are more obvious, the aphorisms and insights a lot less trenchant. But it doesn't fall into Ayn Randy cardboard preachiness and it still really works well as imaginative fiction, IMO it would be uncharitable to say otherwise.