TV/Movies Megathread

[Malthus]

The decision to kill Fredo doesn't show Mike has become a monster.  It's a tragic choice.  Either he acts compassionately and leaves Fredo as a future threat to the family and looks weak to his enemies or he kills him and damns himself personally.

The tragedy is that the sum of such choices ruins the relationships that make up his family.

Each choice is understandable on its own - having his brother in law murdered (he was a traitor who used his abuse of his own wife as a trap to have Sonny murdered); lying about it to his wife (what good would it do to have his wife know that he cynically allowed himself to become godfather to this man's kid, only to have him murdered?); having Fredo killed (he's a liability) ... but in the end, he's left without much of a family to save, having alienated or killed his closest surviving relations.

It's a very Christian movie: he's gained the world but lost his soul ... and he knows it.

[viper37]

Rey going evil would be an awesome twist, and very unlike Disney.

Since they showed it to us in a teaser video though you have to assume that she does no such thing - that it's a dream sequence or something.  No way they spoil a twist like that so easily.

I think, most likely, it is a Force vision, like Luke experienced in the cave on Dagobah, fighting Darth Vader that ultimately turned to be itself.

[Habbaku]

Rey going evil would be an awesome twist, and very unlike Disney.

Since they showed it to us in a teaser video though you have to assume that she does no such thing - that it's a dream sequence or something.  No way they spoil a twist like that so easily.

I think, most likely, it is a Force vision, like Luke experienced in the cave on Dagobah, fighting Darth Vader that ultimately turned to be itself.

Seems pretty likely, especially considering Abrams's derivative writing tendencies.

[Barrister]

Rey going evil would be an awesome twist, and very unlike Disney.

Since they showed it to us in a teaser video though you have to assume that she does no such thing - that it's a dream sequence or something.  No way they spoil a twist like that so easily.

I think, most likely, it is a Force vision, like Luke experienced in the cave on Dagobah, fighting Darth Vader that ultimately turned to be itself.

Seems pretty likely, especially considering Abrams's derivative writing tendencies.

I really do wish they would've gone with someone other than Abrams for IX (although still probably better than their first pick, Colin Trevorrow).

[celedhring]

Tbh that double-edged lightsaber looks clunky and gimmicky even for Star Wars' lax lightsaber standards.

[crazy canuck]

I think that by the end of the first movie he's been thoroughly corrupted by his choices - each reasonable in itself, but inevitably leading him to that point.

This is symbolized by his lying to his wife about having his brother in law killed, and then accepting the fealty of his under-bosses.

Originally, he just wanted to save his father. Then, he wanted to avoid having his family wiped out. But by lying to his wife, he demonstrates that he's fully assumed his father's mantle: he is no longer even pretending he wants a different destiny.

Exactly, that is what makes his character arc so compelling.  The viewer remembers the innocent well intentioned Michael who becomes, over time, a complete thug - mirroring the arc of his father. 

[Syt]

Tbh that double-edged lightsaber looks clunky and gimmicky even for Star Wars' lax lightsaber standards.

It was introduced in a force vision in Star Wars Rebels, as the weapon of a Jedi Temple guard.

[Sophie Scholl]

So.  For the concept of the fall of a character during a movie, how about The Witch?

[The Brain]

Did Michael fall before or after he started murdering hookers?

[celedhring]

So.  For the concept of the fall of a character during a movie, how about The Witch?

I'd say that the audience never sees her as evil, even by the ending.

[dps]

Disagree with Eddie that Michael is not a sympathetic character.  All his choices are constrained by his circumstances.  He's always thinking of the greater good.

The greater good of his organized crime family.

The real struggle in the movie is between two philosophies - one, that the "greater good" is represented by society at large; the other, that the "greater good" is represented by the family. Law and order and crime are definitions created by the larger society. To the family, there is no "crime". There are only acts that are honorable or dishonourable. The conflict between the Godfather and his adversaries is about pressure to engage in dishonourable acts (namely, selling heroin). Gambling and corruption of judges and politicians was criminal, but "honourable" in the moral code of te family (as of course was murdering traitors and rivals). The Godfather resists helping to sell heroin and so is slated for assassination.

Originally, Michael is considered a sell out (or a sucker) by his family, particularly his older brother. Why? Because he willingly joined the marines, to fight in America's wars (rather than fighting for the family). He's murdering strangers for Uncle Sam (for which society gives him medals) rather than murdering enemies and rivals of the family (for which society would condemn him to prison). 

Michael is convinced to switch to the family's sense of morality when the Godfather's enemies use a corrupt police chief against him. If the laws of the greater society are corrupt, relying on law and order is indeed for suckers, and would get his father killed.

The tragedy is that Michael goes down this road to protect his family, and then in service to the family's philosophy, ends up destroying the family he abandoned his morality to preserve - because accepting his family's philosophy makes him a monster. His wife leaves him, he murders his brother-in-law and, eventually, his brother.

If you read The Dresden Files, a lot of it is about Harry worrying that this is what will happen to him--that his choices, which he makes to protect the greater society (for him, family doesn't really enter into it, at least in the earlier books) will corrupt him and turn him into a monster--and considering the urban fantasy setting, in his case perhaps a literal monster, not just a metaphorical one.  I don't think that's what Butcher has in mind for Harry's ultimate fate--and I don't think the readers would like it--but Harry certainly has reason to worry about it.

[Admiral Yi]

Would the first kiss scene in Rocky (I) be too date rapey for today?

[FunkMonk]

Tbh that double-edged lightsaber looks clunky and gimmicky even for Star Wars' lax lightsaber standards.

The trailer looked fine but at that point I laughed out loud.

[Duque de Bragança]

Would the first kiss scene in Rocky (I) be too date rapey for today?

Great, before it was Blade Runner, now it's Rocky.

[Josephus]

so shes evil now?

Actually that would be a cool idea.  Of course, judging by the reaction to the end of Game of Thrones, it would go over like lead balloon.

Yeah, and then millennials will demand a remake. ...and knowing Disney they will do one.