TV/Movies Megathread

[HVC]

Prediction from the trailer: Rey gets possessed by the spirit of Palpatine and Kylo Ren is redeemed in the end by destroying Reypatine.

evil rey clone

[Barrister]

Rey going evil would be an awesome twist, and very unlike Disney.

Since they showed it to us in a teaser video though you have to assume that she does no such thing - that it's a dream sequence or something.  No way they spoil a twist like that so easily.

[Sophie Scholl]

WTF, why are Y-Wings still a thing? They were outdated by the time of A New Hope.

  Y-Wings are the best!

[Syt]

Rey going evil would be an awesome twist, and very unlike Disney.

Since they showed it to us in a teaser video though you have to assume that she does no such thing - that it's a dream sequence or something.  No way they spoil a twist like that so easily.

Well, this movie will likely deal with the legacy of Palpatine in one form or other. Ian McDiarmid is in this in some shape, there's the Death Star wreckage, the trailer has a Darth Vader breath before the Dark Rey reveal, and then there's the humongous fleet of classic, pre-First Order Imperial Star Destroyers.

In the canon books, after Endor the Emperor's final plan was set in motion - destroy as much as possible of the old order with Operation Cinder, and send a contingent of hardcore Imperials to the Unknown Regions where he'd stowed away (as per the books) at least one Super Star Destroyer. It seems he was also somewhat obsessed with what's outside the galaxy, as he had a bunch of observatories to keep tabs on ... whatever.

Considering how much effort they've made to make sure all pieces of narrative now fit together, I'm curious about the resolution.

P.S.: There's also the new Sith Troopers ... they look similar to the First Order ones, but Kylo Ren said that the Jedi and Sith have to end in the last movie ....

[Syt]

Stuff like this makes me want to catch up on any books I've missed in the meantime, and the comics which have come out and are part of the canon now.

[Eddie Teach]

Disagree with Malthus that Michael Corleone is a sympathetic character.

[crazy canuck]

Disagree with Malthus that Michael Corleone is a sympathetic character.

Ok, what is your reason for not having sympathy for the kid who was supposed to go straight but got dragged into the family business, to protect his family, due to a series of events completely outside his control and in doing so destroyed the relationship he had with the love of his life?

[Admiral Yi]

Disagree with Eddie that Michael is not a sympathetic character.  All his choices are constrained by his circumstances.  He's always thinking of the greater good.

[Barrister]

Disagree with Malthus that Michael Corleone is a sympathetic character.

Ok, what is your reason for not having sympathy for the kid who was supposed to go straight but got dragged into the family business, to protect his family, due to a series of events completely outside his control and in doing so destroyed the relationship he had with the love of his life?

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but I have to reply.

Absolutely you have to have sympathy for Michael, and sure he was reacting to events, but his responses were entirely up to him.

[Barrister]

Disagree with Eddie that Michael is not a sympathetic character.  All his choices are constrained by his circumstances.  He's always thinking of the greater good.

The greater good of his organized crime family.

[Malthus]

I think that by the end of the first movie he's been thoroughly corrupted by his choices - each reasonable in itself, but inevitably leading him to that point.

This is symbolized by his lying to his wife about having his brother in law killed, and then accepting the fealty of his under-bosses.

Originally, he just wanted to save his father. Then, he wanted to avoid having his family wiped out. But by lying to his wife, he demonstrates that he's fully assumed his father's mantle: he is no longer even pretending he wants a different destiny.

[celedhring]

Disagree with Eddie that Michael is not a sympathetic character.  All his choices are constrained by his circumstances.  He's always thinking of the greater good.

The greater good of his organized crime family.

That's the strength of it, though. It's his family and we can relate to him wanting to save his father. But ultimately he turns into a monster.

[Malthus]

Disagree with Eddie that Michael is not a sympathetic character.  All his choices are constrained by his circumstances.  He's always thinking of the greater good.

The greater good of his organized crime family.

The real struggle in the movie is between two philosophies - one, that the "greater good" is represented by society at large; the other, that the "greater good" is represented by the family. Law and order and crime are definitions created by the larger society. To the family, there is no "crime". There are only acts that are honorable or dishonourable. The conflict between the Godfather and his adversaries is about pressure to engage in dishonourable acts (namely, selling heroin). Gambling and corruption of judges and politicians was criminal, but "honourable" in the moral code of te family (as of course was murdering traitors and rivals). The Godfather resists helping to sell heroin and so is slated for assassination.

Originally, Michael is considered a sell out (or a sucker) by his family, particularly his older brother. Why? Because he willingly joined the marines, to fight in America's wars (rather than fighting for the family). He's murdering strangers for Uncle Sam (for which society gives him medals) rather than murdering enemies and rivals of the family (for which society would condemn him to prison). 

Michael is convinced to switch to the family's sense of morality when the Godfather's enemies use a corrupt police chief against him. If the laws of the greater society are corrupt, relying on law and order is indeed for suckers, and would get his father killed.

The tragedy is that Michael goes down this road to protect his family, and then in service to the family's philosophy, ends up destroying the family he abandoned his morality to preserve - because accepting his family's philosophy makes him a monster. His wife leaves him, he murders his brother-in-law and, eventually, his brother.

[Admiral Yi]

The decision to kill Fredo doesn't show Mike has become a monster.  It's a tragic choice.  Either he acts compassionately and leaves Fredo as a future threat to the family and looks weak to his enemies or he kills him and damns himself personally.

[Barrister]

The decision to kill Fredo doesn't show Mike has become a monster.  It's a tragic choice.  Either he acts compassionately and leaves Fredo as a future threat to the family and looks weak to his enemies or he kills him and damns himself personally.

Just because it's tragic, and just because he has logical reasons to kill Fredo, doesn't make him any less a monster at that point.