Libyan Civil War Megathread

[Kleves]

There are many shades of grey in a conflict between a mad dictator and his legion of mercenaries against 6 million people who have seen their nation's great wealth wasted on palaces and mercenaries.

Tough to argue that the money spent on the mercs was wasted, at this point. 

[Ed Anger]

I see Spellus has bandwagoned onto another people. Look at that fucking hipster.

[grumbler]

What's all this tribal talk? Whoever wins, no "tribe" is getting butchered afterwards. The fighting is not going down tribal lines.

  You're not even trying any more.

[Mr.Penguin]

From Al Jazeera's live blog...

8:05pm

Diplomats have told Al Jazeera that there has been agreement over most of the draft resolution, but there is still concern over one paragraph, reproduced below, which deals with taking "all necessary measures" to protect Libyan civilians, short of an "occupation force".

Authorises member states that have notified the Secretary-General and the Secretary-General of the League of Arab States, acting nationally or through regional organisations or arrangements, and acting in cooperation with the S-G, to take all necessary measures, notwithstanding paragraph 9 of Resolution 1970, to protect cilivians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamarhiya, including Benghazi, while excluding an occupation force and requests the member states concerned to inform the S-G immediately of the measures they take pursuant to the authorisation conferred by this paragraph which shall immediately reported to the security council.

I dont think that neither Russia or Chinese is going to let this one pass...

[MadImmortalMan]

So what happens to those pilots who defected to Malta? Are they given asylum there in the case of Ghaddafi winning?

[Darth Wagtaros]

So what happens to those pilots who defected to Malta? Are they given asylum there in the case of Ghaddafi winning?

They are just sleeper agents for when the Caliphate comes to being.  Or so talk radio would have us believe.

[MadImmortalMan]

UN voting now.

[Caliga]

Is the UN voting to disband, I hope?

[MadImmortalMan]

No-fly zone is apparently a go?

[Ed Anger]

Approved. 

[MadImmortalMan]

Tinfoil fun:


http://www.debka.com/article/20772/

Shortly before the UN Security Council met Thursday, March 17, to discuss a no-fly zone resolution for Libya, Moscow promised Washington and other Western capitals not to apply a veto, debkafile's sources report exclusively. The US, British, French, UAE and Qatar air forces were on standby to attack Libyan army targets as soon as the resolution is passed. If attacked, Libya threatens retaliation against civilian and military targets in Europe and the Middle East, according to a statement from the Defense Ministry in Tripoli..
In Tunis, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton explained that a UN no-fly zone over Libya "would require the bombing of targets to take out the threat posed by Muammar Qaddafi's regime."
*snip*

Iron Hillary!

[Ed Anger]

With the now inevitable US action, I have to withdraw my internet support for Mummar.

NO BLOOD FOR OIL.

[Razgovory]

Goddamn it.

[MadImmortalMan]

Maybe those Debka goons were right...


http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/17/libya.civil.war/index.html

U.N. Security Council to vote on more than no-fly zone for Libya
From Richard Roth, CNN Senior U.N. Correspondent
March 17, 2011 6:13 p.m. EDT

United Nations (CNN) -- The U.N. Security Council met Thursday evening to decide on whether to impose a no-fly zone -- and potentially take other steps -- to try to halt Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi's rapid advances against rebel positions in his country.

The draft the council will vote on includes language stating that "all necessary means" could be used to prevent the "slaughter of civilians," a diplomat said.

The vote is scheduled for Thursday evening.

Opposition leaders want U.N. action because of recent gains made by Gadhafi forces and an imminent offensive against Benghazi.

"We're hoping and praying that the United Nations will come up with a very firm and very fast resolution and they will enforce it immediately," said Ahmed El-Gallal, a senior opposition coordinator.

In a radio address aired on Libyan state TV, Gadhafi criticized residents of Benghazi and called them "traitors" for seeking help from outsiders.

U.S. military officials have said that a no-fly zone would typically be enforced by fighter jets whose speed and altitude make it difficult to target Gadhafi's helicopters and that it would not halt the heavy artillery the regime is using on the ground.

A draft version of a proposed resolution goes beyond a no-fly zone. It includes language saying U.N. member states could "take all necessary measures ... to protect civilians and civilian populated areas under threat of attack in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, including Benghazi, while excluding a foreign occupation force."

It also condemns the "gross and systematic violation of human rights, including arbitrary detentions, enforced disappearances, torture and summary executions."

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said the United States would not act without a U.N. resolution.

"The international community is debating how best to prevent Gadhafi from overrunning the opposition and killing many more innocent people," she said Thursday during a visit to nearby Tunisia.

Asked whether France will be involved in strikes against Libya if a resolution is passed, French Foreign Minister Alain Juppe said Thursday at the United Nations that "France is available with others to put the resolution in action, including in this domain."

The draft deplores the use of mercenaries by Libyan authorities, expresses concern about the safety of foreign nationals and demands an immediate cease-fire.

The Arab League's U.N. ambassador, Yahya Mahmassani, said two Arab countries would take part in a no-fly zone operation, but he was not sure which two.

Any of the five permanent members of the council can veto a resolution. Although China and Russia, two of those countries, have expressed reservations about a no-fly zone, diplomats said that there is not expected to be a veto, but there may be abstentions.

French Ambassador to the United Nations Gerard Araud said he expects at least one abstention.

One diplomat said that forging the resolution was "like playing three-dimensional chess."

The United States is also suggesting that the United Nations should do more than impose a no-fly zone on Libya as Gadhafi's forces fight their way east toward the rebel capital of Benghazi.

Airstrikes against Gadhafi's forces are among options being discussed as diplomats try to hammer out the resolution, a diplomatic source said.

The U.S. ambassador to the United Nations raised the possibility Wednesday of "going beyond a no-fly zone."

Ambassador Susan Rice said that a "range of actions" were up for serious discussion, including but not limited to a no-fly zone, which has "inherent limitations in terms of protection of civilians."

Juppe flew to New York on Thursday to lobby the Security Council in person to approve a resolution on Libya. France is a co-sponsor of the measure, along with the United Kingdom and Lebanon.

Libyan state TV, meanwhile, said Thursday that the rebel capital of Benghazi would soon come under attack.

Gadhafi said that his forces will enter Benghazi to rid the city of those "traitors" and that his forces will search everyone for weapons. He added that his forces gave amnesty to those who gave up their weapons in the city of Ajdabiya. "We will not allow further bloodshed among Libyans," Gadhafi said.

"Search for the traitors, for the fanatics. Show them no mercy. We will look for them behind every wall," Gadhafi said. "This farce cannot go on."

There were air strikes on Benghazi's airport Thursday, with three blasts hitting the site about 30 kilometers (about 18 miles) outside the city.

The opposition has been using the airport to launch its own airstrikes, using a handful of jets that rebels have managed to get off the ground, opposition leaders said.

It is not clear that Gadhafi's ground forces are actually within striking range of Benghazi, but they have been fighting their way in that direction for several days.

State TV claimed Thursday that Gadhafi's forces were in control of Ajdabiya, on the road to Benghazi, a claim disputed by opposition leaders.

El-Gallal, speaking from eastern Libya, said "morale is high" and people do not want to leave strongholds because Gadhafi "is willing to kill everybody here."

The government forces have taken control of the eastern and western gates to the city and are trying to breach the inside, opposition leaders said. The opposition says it controls the southern entrance.

The opposition says it has a handful of jets that are no match with Gadhafi's superior air power and a pair of Russian-made "Hind" attack helicopters.

Ajdabiya is the last major point between pro-government forces and Benghazi. If it is retaken by pro-Gadhafi forces, it would give access to roads leading to the heart of the opposition's base.

In remarks to the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, William Burns, the under secretary for political affairs at the State Department, said Gadhafi's forces are only about 160 kilometers outside Benghazi.

"They've made advances, taking full advantage of their overwhelming military superiority in military firepower," Burns said.

He expressed fear that Gadhafi, now isolated by the world community, could turn to terrorism again.

"I think there is also a very real danger that if Gadhafi is successful on the ground, that you will also face a number of other considerable risks as well: The danger of him returning to terrorism and violent extremism himself, the dangers of the turmoil that he could help create at a critical moment elsewhere in the region," Burns told the committee.

[Caliga]

With the now inevitable US action, I have to withdraw my internet support for Mummar.

NO BLOOD FOR OIL.

I've decided I am in favor of the no-fly zone.  The result will be: longer war, ergo more dead America-hating Arabs.