House Passes Puerto Rican Statehood Plebiscite

[Barrister]

Don't try and talk me down from my feigned internet rage!

Sorry

You know sometimes it is annoying having a serious opinion about something nobody else on the forum takes seriously

Heck this issue is so huge Glenn Beck went out of his way to make up a huge conspiracy about it.

Okay, serious response:

Why does it have to be all or nothing?  That seems to be your opinion - all these places must either 'join' the US, or they must go independent.

For starters that seems to run contrary to your opinion that the world has too many micro-states.  And on that you're probably right - Guam would have a hard go of it as an independent nation, for example.

But many of these places have justified fears about wholely joining the USA.  They have independent, unique cultures that they do not want to give up.  As such they would rather share somewhat loose ties to the US, but maintain some distance as well.

Why does it have to be all or nothing?  I can't see anything wrong with 'commonwealth' status.

Plus "Territory" is just a cool name for a region. 

[jimmy olsen]

"more spanish speaking" is written so that it refers to individuals.

You heard wrong, every Puerto Rican born in the states that I know speaks English well enough to function in society.

I hardly see how Puerto Rico's example is going to sway people in other mainland states. There are obvious historical differences and reasons for Spanish to be one of the official languages of Puerto Rico and they're not transferable.

Puerto Ricans aren't the only Spanish speakers. Don't they tend to live in the north east and generally pretty English states?
I was of course speaking of the southern states where they've lots of Spanish speakers of other origins.
The reason it could sway is it would rubbish the argument that having a state speaking a utterly different language would mess with the way the country works. Who gives a crap about the reasons for Puerto Rico being Spanish speaking, that it is is enough.

A lot of those southern states have already passed laws making English the official state language.

Also, 88% of 2nd generation Hispanics speak English well
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/644/english-language-usage-hispanics

[alfred russel]

Don't try and talk me down from my feigned internet rage!

Sorry

You know sometimes it is annoying having a serious opinion about something nobody else on the forum takes seriously

Heck this issue is so huge Glenn Beck went out of his way to make up a huge conspiracy about it.

Okay, serious response:

Why does it have to be all or nothing?  That seems to be your opinion - all these places must either 'join' the US, or they must go independent.

For starters that seems to run contrary to your opinion that the world has too many micro-states.  And on that you're probably right - Guam would have a hard go of it as an independent nation, for example.

But many of these places have justified fears about wholely joining the USA.  They have independent, unique cultures that they do not want to give up.  As such they would rather share somewhat loose ties to the US, but maintain some distance as well.

Why does it have to be all or nothing?  I can't see anything wrong with 'commonwealth' status.

Plus "Territory" is just a cool name for a region. 

Because of taxes--Puerto Rico has more people than most states, why shouldn't it be subject to the same taxes as everyone else? If it wasn't for republicans being scared of a new state locked into the democratic party and nativists scared of the spanish language, I think there would be an overwhelming stateside push for Puerto Rico to choose statehood or independence.

I can't think of how Puerto Rico can protect its culture now that it couldn't with statehood.

[jimmy olsen]

Anyways, this hasn't become a big story yet because the Senate is unlikely to pass this. But it was unlikely that the House would either, and I was quite surprised to hear it, so it's possible. If the Senate does pass it, how big an issue do you think this will become in the country and how will it play out?

[Josquius]

A lot of those southern states have already passed laws making English the official state language.

So because they've a law saying English is the official language they can't do another law to make Spanish also official?
Puerto Rican statehood would really be a huge kick in the nuts to the English only movement which could allow their opponents on the mainland to change things.

Also, 88% of 2nd generation Hispanics speak English well
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/644/english-language-usage-hispanics

And?
The Welsh pretty much all speak English. In many communities they still go about their daily buisness in Welsh. Languages aren't mutually exclusive.

[Jaron]

Most 2nd generation Hispanics prefer to do their dealings in English.

[Neil]

Nominal GDP per capita is between the 33rd and 32nd country according to the CIA factbook and is higher than South Korea. That's a first world country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita#cite_note-2

Not really.

Besides, they speak Spanish there.  No Spanish-speaking country is first-world.

[clandestino]

Yup, the poorest parts of Spain, Andalucía and Extremadura, both border Portugal. Galicia and Castilla y León, the other two regions that border Portugal, are not that well off either.

You know that our poorer regions (besides Azores) also border Spain right? 

BTW, what about Ceuta? They don't seem to be that well off? Or since they are so small, they get everything paid by the mainland?

[The Brain]

Plus "Territory" is just a cool name for a region. 

For BB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4E0UtxI7b0

[Josquius]

Most 2nd generation Hispanics prefer to do their dealings in English.

The point he was disagreeing with though was that you can get by perfectly well in Spanish in the south.
I've no first hand experience myself but a Spanish friend has just returned from the US and he tells me this is so.

And I can't help but think a part of the reason this is so is that English is the official languge whilst Spanish is the nasty low class immigrant speak.

[Admiral Yi]

The point he was disagreeing with though was that you can get by perfectly well in Spanish in the south.
I've no first hand experience myself but a Spanish friend has just returned from the US and he tells me this is so.

I could see the south west.  Not the south.

And I can't help but think a part of the reason this is so is that English is the official languge whilst Spanish is the nasty low class immigrant speak.

It's the road to higher paying jobs.

[Josquius]

I could see the south west.  Not the south.

You're right.
I misphrased, slipped my mind for a second 'the south' means a certain area in the US rather than just a vague directioned part of the country.

[jimmy olsen]

Most 2nd generation Hispanics prefer to do their dealings in English.

The point he was disagreeing with though was that you can get by perfectly well in Spanish in the south.
I've no first hand experience myself but a Spanish friend has just returned from the US and he tells me this is so.

And I can't help but think a part of the reason this is so is that English is the official languge whilst Spanish is the nasty low class immigrant speak.

Half the second generation Hispanics I know just don't prefer to speak in English, they have to speak in English because their Spanish speaking ability ranges from not fluent to nonexistent. The power of popular culture and modern media is overwhelming and has vastly accelerated the process of assimilation. 77% of Latino immigrants can't speak English fluently but 88% of the children can. That's a huge disparity between generations.

[The Larch]

Yup, the poorest parts of Spain, Andalucía and Extremadura, both border Portugal. Galicia and Castilla y León, the other two regions that border Portugal, are not that well off either.

You know that our poorer regions (besides Azores) also border Spain right? 

BTW, what about Ceuta? They don't seem to be that well off? Or since they are so small, they get everything paid by the mainland?

Murcia or Castilla la Mancha aren't precisely Switzerland either, and they don't border Portugal. 
And don't try to hide the vast riches of Tras-Os-Montes.   

[PDH]

Mexican immigrant comes to America, can't speak English, named Jose Martinez.

Son speaks mostly English, named Jose (Joe) Martinez.

Grandson speaks no Spanish, named Jeff Martin. You know, the guy down the street. Married to Debbie - has two kids, Cadence and Sierra.