Viking longships, were they really that combat effective?

[Mr.Penguin]

I read an interesting book called The Frozen Echo about the Greenland colonies and their demise.  Her thesis was I think one of two things: either the surviving Greenlanders were indeed captured by European pirates or that they attempted to emigrate en masse to Vinland but either died on the way or were massacred/enslaved by Native Americans once they arrived.  I'm pretty sure she very strongly argued against their demise being related to starvation.  I read this book about a decade ago, which is why I'm having trouble remembering details.

Or they just gave up and tried to return to Iceland or Norway, maybe they succeed, maybe not. It may have been a slow and gradually return to Iceland/Norway, too few to really have been noticed, or maybe news of their return was lost in the aftermath of the plague...

[Martim Silva]

[quoteMr.Penguin]
Or they just gave up and tried to return to Iceland or Norway, maybe they succeed, maybe not. It may have been a slow and gradually return to Iceland/Norway, too few to really have been noticed, or maybe news of their return was lost in the aftermath of the plague...
[/quote]

I do remember reading something about the Icelandic documents of the early XVth century, which note an increasing amount of Greenlanders settling in the Island. I always thought it was a certainty that the cooling weather was the main reason why the Greenlanders left - it's not like any kind of raid ever kept people from inhabiting a good place. And I think they said some lone guys stayed behind.

Besides, the settlers returned in the XVIIIth century, as the temperatures warmed up.

Also, with the recent climate changes we are approaching the warmth levels that existed in Greenland in the Middle Ages, so I suppose soon we'll see how hospitable it was before the climate cooled.

[Lucidor]

Conflict with Inuits led to lots of Greenlanders dying.


(Is it OK to mention Jared Diamond on this forum?)

[garbon]

(Is it OK to mention Jared Diamond on this forum?)

[Josquius]

Also, with the recent climate changes we are approaching the warmth levels that existed in Greenland in the Middle Ages, so I suppose soon we'll see how hospitable it was before the climate cooled.

IIRC weren't there also huge problems with soil erosion and over grazing though?
In fact I remember reading somewhere (god knows where) this was more of a factor than the cooling even.

[Razgovory]

Conflict with Inuits led to lots of Greenlanders dying.


(Is it OK to mention Jared Diamond on this forum?)

No.  I think the theory that they died out because they wouldn't eat fish has pretty much been discredited.  The last recorded Greenlanders apparently immigrated back to Iceland.

[Jaron]

I met Jared Diamond!!!

[Viking]

Regarding Greenlanders and ships. Comparing it to iceland itself. In the 13th century (two centuries before the death of the last norse greenlander) Iceland surrenders it's independence in exchange for ships. Iceland doesn't have ships as early as the 13th century. Naturally there is no timber to build them so the only ships the icelanders get are the ships that a private citizen without property went abroad, gained a ship (by fair means or foul) and then found a reason to return home. The little ice age meant that grain was no longer grown on iceland and had to be imported. (explaining the stranger bits of icelandic cuisine)

The greenlanders would have known that running out of ships meant death. So Greenlanders moving to Iceland makes sense, but that would mean crashing in social status from Lord and landowner to servant.

[Razgovory]

I met Jared Diamond!!!

He probably dismissed you as an idiot since you aren't from New Guinea.

[Ed Anger]

(Is it OK to mention Jared Diamond on this forum?)

I found that book of his to be one big borefest.

[Jaron]

I met Jared Diamond!!!

He probably dismissed you as an idiot since you aren't from New Guinea.

Troll?

[Admiral Yi]

I met Jared Diamond!!!

Did you get him to sing the Five Dollar Foot Long song?

[Josquius]

Whats wrong with Jared Diamond?

[Vricklund]

So, what gives?

Once you've sailed a clinker built ship with dead silent cotton sails through the swedish archipelago on a sunny summers day with a steady onshore breeze you know that there is no greater means of transportation.

Cotton sails? Very few Negroes in Sweden 1,000 years ago.

Meh, pardon me for not sailing with authentic wool or linen sails then. The essence of my post still stands.

To get back on topic I might add that in Ingvar Vittfarnes (Far-Travelled?) saga there is a record of an encounter between the viking fleet and ships that shoots fire. Someone more knowledgable might be able to elaborate?