Two questions: Can anyone read kanji, and can you iron really old silk?

Started by Caliga, February 07, 2010, 06:02:14 PM

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Caliga

I think I've mentioned this on Languish before, but I own about a half dozen Japanese silk flags that I believe are from WWII (two of them are IJA rising sun ensigns).  I've had these since I was a teenager, and they're in the exact same condition now as they were when I got them--stuffed into a Crown Royal bag and all wrinkled up.  At one point, I was going to show them to a Japanese history professor I had in college, but I couldn't find them until after I graduated.  Then I lost them again for many years, but found them again about 2 months ago in a box of crap from our old house in Massachusetts.

I'd really like to know what's written on them--for all I know they could be phony repros, or hell one could be from the Ichiki Regiment for all I know.  I guess I could take digital pics of them all, but since they're so wrinkled I don't know if they'd even turn out to be legible due to all of the wrinkling.... so I dunno if I can iron them without destroying them. :hmm:
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Drakken

I have a New Nelson Japanese-English Character Dictionary at home, and it is very complete. I even translated parts of Nobunaga's Ambition for personal use with it. I might be of use.

Caliga

IIRC the Japanese writing system changed after WWII, so I dunno if your dictionary would help in this case.  These characters look similar to Chinese pictographs to me.
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Drakken

Quote from: Caliga on February 07, 2010, 06:11:36 PM
IIRC the Japanese writing system changed after WWII, so I dunno if your dictionary would help in this case.  These characters look similar to Chinese pictographs to me.

It still encompasses pre-WWII Kanji.

Josquius

Quote from: Caliga on February 07, 2010, 06:11:36 PM
IIRC the Japanese writing system changed after WWII, so I dunno if your dictionary would help in this case.  These characters look similar to Chinese pictographs to me.
That is kanji.
The after WW2 change IIRC was a more hiragana use and a lot more katakana (more proper 'alphabet' but even that isn't the right name...syllabry or something?)
I don't think the kanji on these flags would be so obscure that they wouldn't be in the current standard proficiency list, they'd certainly be in a dictionary.

Do you have no Hong Kong or Taiwan originated people around there? They should be able to give you a idea of what they mean.
The PRC has changed its writing system though so it won't be a sure thing with regular Chinese.
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Admiral Yi

Take a pic, post it, one of the ESL guys can pass it to a co-worker.  Or a bar hostess.  Though in passing I would note that Koreans typically know fewer characters than Japanese or Chinese.

If that fails I can ask my mom to take a look.

Hell, ask mono.

Caliga

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HisMajestyBOB

Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 07, 2010, 06:32:03 PM
Take a pic, post it, one of the ESL guys can pass it to a co-worker.  Or a bar hostess.  Though in passing I would note that Koreans typically know fewer characters than Japanese or Chinese.

If that fails I can ask my mom to take a look.

Hell, ask mono.

Are the chinese characters used in Japanese, etc. really all readable if you know one set? Like if I learned Hanja, I could understand Kanji?
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Monoriu

Quote from: HisMajestyBOB on February 08, 2010, 12:10:04 AM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 07, 2010, 06:32:03 PM
Take a pic, post it, one of the ESL guys can pass it to a co-worker.  Or a bar hostess.  Though in passing I would note that Koreans typically know fewer characters than Japanese or Chinese.

If that fails I can ask my mom to take a look.

Hell, ask mono.

Are the chinese characters used in Japanese, etc. really all readable if you know one set? Like if I learned Hanja, I could understand Kanji?

I know nothing about Chinese characters used in Korean.  But as far as Chinese characters in Japanese is concerned, I can pretty much read all of them.  There are some slight differences - the Japanese have their own way of simplifying some of the Chinese characters; some characters have slightly different meanings (the words that mean "hot soup" in Chinese actually convey "hot water" in Japanese, for instance).  But the differences are small.

Richard Hakluyt

IIRC they standardised and lowered kanji usage - to 1,880 characters - and used hiragana for the less often used kanji prior to the reforms; the flags should therefore still be readable by Mono.

One possible problem is that the "Chinese" pronounciation of a particular character can sound like the Japanese for a different thing; so, as far as a Chinese would be concerned, the character is being used incorrectly and the meaning is obscure.

Post some pics of the flags anyway, it would be interesting  :cool:

Zanza

Quote from: Monoriu on February 08, 2010, 01:10:44 AM
the words that mean "hot soup" in Chinese actually convey "hot water" in Japanese, for instance
That could be meant as a comment on Chinese cuisine.

Josquius

Quote from: Zanza on February 08, 2010, 06:01:26 AM
Quote from: Monoriu on February 08, 2010, 01:10:44 AM
the words that mean "hot soup" in Chinese actually convey "hot water" in Japanese, for instance
That could be meant as a comment on Chinese cuisine.
hmm...Chinese soup is rather watery.....
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Caliga

Yeah, I think I'll take the pics tonight without worrying about the wrinkles, and if Mono can't read them I'll worry more about the ironing bit.
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Strix

Quote from: Caliga on February 08, 2010, 06:14:51 AM
Yeah, I think I'll take the pics tonight without worrying about the wrinkles, and if Mono can't read them I'll worry more about the ironing bit.

I'd try hanging them up first before ironing. It takes time but nature and gravity should remove a lot of the wrinkles (if not all).
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