Unusual issue popped up at work

[Sheilbh]

Seems pretty comprehensive.  Do you happen to know how old this legislation is?

2004.

[grumbler]

Seems pretty comprehensive.  Do you happen to know how old this legislation is?

2004.

Danke.

[PDH]

These are real-life legal kinds of situations, and I have no idea what the answer is.  I am confused as to what you are basing your definitions of "legal sex" and "legal gender" on.  Not syaing you are wrong, just saying that you need to document your assertions a little bit.  You answer to "what does the law say" with regard to gender, "whatever the fuck society wants to decide" seems particularly vague.

My totally non-legal but biological/anthropological point being that chromosomal sex differentiation is pretty basic, it ain't going away with some horomonal therapy. Society figures (again oversimplification but who cares) out gender roles (which not too oddly have a majority dual componant system) that allows variation within it.

Until we figure out how to change sex, gender changing is the best we can do.

[grumbler]

My totally non-legal but biological/anthropological point being that chromosomal sex differentiation is pretty basic, it ain't going away with some horomonal therapy. Society figures (again oversimplification but who cares) out gender roles (which not too oddly have a majority dual componant system) that allows variation within it.

Until we figure out how to change sex, gender changing is the best we can do.

I see.  Agree, and made pretty much the same point earlier (as did garbon).  In Britain, the answer is pretty clear, but in the US it is clear as mud (especially because it appears to be incrementally approached on the Federal elevel and on a state-by-state basis). 

[Josquius]

Anyway, people who get sex change operations, get their birth certificate, passport, etc changed to female, apparently can't join the US military.  In the UK the military will pay for the surgery  

Sounds like a good way for the gender-confused to get free surgery.....
Now that could make for a rather cool little comedy-drama movie.
Some effeminate man signs up for the army having heard of this free surgery thing. He gets sent off to Afghanistan where fun is had as he breaks a nail and the like. Perhaps he can meet some gruff working class private who hates his guts at first but over time a friendship develops and the main character realises what it means to be a man. To make it typical of cliched movie plots lets make the revelation happen just as he's on the operating table.

[dps]

You've been very involved in this thread, Grumbler. Are you thinking of making the change?

No, it just is a legal issue I have never thought about before, and is exactly the kind of "technological issue" for which the common law offers no help... ...I cannot imagine many legislators wanting to get in front on the issue.

To be honest, I have trouble picturing most state legislators even being aware of the issue. 

Heck, I have trouble picturing a lot of them being aware of most any technological issue.

[Eddie Teach]

Sounds like a good way for the gender-confused to get free surgery.....
Now that could make for a rather cool little comedy-drama movie.
Some effeminate man signs up for the army having heard of this free surgery thing. He gets sent off to Afghanistan where fun is had as he breaks a nail and the like. Perhaps he can meet some gruff working class private who hates his guts at first but over time a friendship develops and the main character realises what it means to be a man. To make it typical of cliched movie plots lets make the revelation happen just as he's on the operating table.

You should send a letter to the studios.

[Martinus]

'Gender Recognition Act'

Good name that. As I said before, from a purely semantical point, you cannot have your "legal change of gender" - gender is what you identify as, essentially. You can however change the legal recognition of your gender identity.

For the record, the surgical procedure which is associated with gender identity issues is neither, technically, a "gender change" or a "sex change" either - it's essentially an attempt to bring your outward sexual appearance in line, as far as possible, with your gender.

[Razgovory]

Just ignore grumbler. He is playing his usual semantics game of sex != gender. 

I will have to admit this is pretty petty even for Grumbler.

Oh, Noes!  The Raz-Marty dogpile is activated! 

All we need is Syt or grallon to join in to make it a Trifecta of dogpilers.

You can only dogpile a man when he's down.  Good that we all know our places in life though.

[Martinus]

Kinky.

[Sheilbh]

For the record, the surgical procedure which is associated with gender identity issues is neither, technically, a "gender change" or a "sex change" either - it's essentially an attempt to bring your outward sexual appearance in line, as far as possible, with your gender.

Nor is the operation required for gender recognition in the UK, I believe we're one of the only countries without that requirement.  A long-term (I think two years) history of gender dysmorphia (?) is what's required, not a surgical procedure.